Building strength for hilly rides

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oldwelshman
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby oldwelshman » Wed Jan 02, 2013 00:16 am

Graham K wrote:Have you tried changing your riding pattern, say doing a 15-20 mile sprint flat out instead of a say 50 mile ride, ideally have a hill or 2 in it and time yourself to see progress.

Wow 15-20 mile sprint flat out, great advice :D Physically impossible so interested to know how you get on sprinting flat out for 15 miles were most sprinters even the likes of Cav and Hoy normally do max for 200 to 400m and can't do anymore :D 20 miles hmm

Tom Butcher
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Tom Butcher » Wed Jan 02, 2013 00:33 am

Surprised that 100-150 miles a week isn't enough to stick with a club ride - especially at 11 stone in the hills.

Is this a particularly fast club ride or is it starting to kick off a bit when you get dropped - because it may be the lads dropping you are out on chain gangs in the week and you just lack enough high intensity riding to stick with them when they put the hammer down. In other words are you blowing up at 2 hours or are they suddenly accelerating up a hill and you struggle to go with that intensity ?
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vespario
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby vespario » Wed Jan 02, 2013 09:07 am

Bit of both I think!

joe.90
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby joe.90 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 09:25 am

oldwelshman wrote:
Graham K wrote:Have you tried changing your riding pattern, say doing a 15-20 mile sprint flat out instead of a say 50 mile ride, ideally have a hill or 2 in it and time yourself to see progress.

Wow 15-20 mile sprint flat out, great advice :D Physically impossible so interested to know how you get on sprinting flat out for 15 miles were most sprinters even the likes of Cav and Hoy normally do max for 200 to 400m and can't do anymore :D 20 miles hmm


im pretty sure he didn't literally mean sprinting, just a much faster pace for shorter time.

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SBezza
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby SBezza » Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:14 am

vespario wrote:Tend to ride about 100 + miles a week in winter. One 70 club run plus one or two shorter rides in the week.

During school holidays this goes up to about 150 a week to 170 depending on weather.

Tend to average around 17mph on most rides or so my garmin tells me.


First of all ride more frequently, 3 rides a week will not really help build fitness, you would have lost virtually all of the fitness in the 4 days you are not riding. If you can try to ride 3 to 4 times during the week, have a rest day before the 70 miler, you will eventually get fitter.

If you can only do an hour or so on each ride during the week, up the intensity, no point doing you 70 mile effort/pace for less than 3 hour IMO. 60 mins at high tempo is a good start, or if you can manage it at sweetspot, but if you are not that fit that might prove to tiring if trying to ride more often as well.

As above, seeing you can do 2 hours at a good pace, strength is a non issue, cardio fitness is the issue.

oldwelshman
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby oldwelshman » Thu Jan 03, 2013 01:16 am

joe.90 wrote:
oldwelshman wrote:
Graham K wrote:Have you tried changing your riding pattern, say doing a 15-20 mile sprint flat out instead of a say 50 mile ride, ideally have a hill or 2 in it and time yourself to see progress.

Wow 15-20 mile sprint flat out, great advice :D Physically impossible so interested to know how you get on sprinting flat out for 15 miles were most sprinters even the likes of Cav and Hoy normally do max for 200 to 400m and can't do anymore :D 20 miles hmm


im pretty sure he didn't literally mean sprinting, just a much faster pace for shorter time.

Well he did say sprint "flat out" which does not even come close to saying ride at or just below threshold, flat out is anaerobic and unsustainable over endurance distance, this is a forum and some beginners may read training section for advice and take it as literal. I did put a couple of smiley faces so not being totally pedantic :-)

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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby okgo » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:14 pm

oldwelshman wrote:
joe.90 wrote:
oldwelshman wrote:
Graham K wrote:Have you tried changing your riding pattern, say doing a 15-20 mile sprint flat out instead of a say 50 mile ride, ideally have a hill or 2 in it and time yourself to see progress.

Wow 15-20 mile sprint flat out, great advice :D Physically impossible so interested to know how you get on sprinting flat out for 15 miles were most sprinters even the likes of Cav and Hoy normally do max for 200 to 400m and can't do anymore :D 20 miles hmm


im pretty sure he didn't literally mean sprinting, just a much faster pace for shorter time.

Well he did say sprint "flat out" which does not even come close to saying ride at or just below threshold, flat out is anaerobic and unsustainable over endurance distance, this is a forum and some beginners may read training section for advice and take it as literal. I did put a couple of smiley faces so not being totally pedantic :-)


I think you actually were being totally pedantic, to be honest. If you think someone is going to read that, then start sprinting out of the saddle in 53/12 and expect to hold it for 20 miles then you perhaps underestimate humans as a species ;)
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Graham K
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Graham K » Thu Jan 03, 2013 20:30 pm

joe.90 wrote:
oldwelshman wrote:
Graham K wrote:Have you tried changing your riding pattern, say doing a 15-20 mile sprint flat out instead of a say 50 mile ride, ideally have a hill or 2 in it and time yourself to see progress.

Wow 15-20 mile sprint flat out, great advice :D Physically impossible so interested to know how you get on sprinting flat out for 15 miles were most sprinters even the likes of Cav and Hoy normally do max for 200 to 400m and can't do anymore :D 20 miles hmm


im pretty sure he didn't literally mean sprinting, just a much faster pace for shorter time.


Spot on Joe, Cheers.
I have a MTB route of 17 miles, its not the most adventurous, technical or hilly but I use it as a sprint (higher tempo blast) and time myself over and through it,
Since doing this I found I was getting stronger on the slog's and gaining in endurance.
So there you go oldwelshman, hmm :roll:

oldwelshman
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby oldwelshman » Thu Jan 03, 2013 23:23 pm

Sorry but there is a big difference between high tempo blast and a sprint. If you mean do high tempo ride just say that, sprint efforts are much shorter duration but also have their benefits.

Tom Butcher
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Tom Butcher » Fri Jan 04, 2013 00:49 am

There is a relevant point here which is if an hours hard riding on a MTB is a sprint then unless the rider is doing some super fast sprints or something they are probably not doing any real high intensity stuff.

So yes maybe nobody did think they meant actually sprint for an hour but it's worth pointing out an hour is actually quite a long time to be pressing on and the intensity you could sustain isn't that much higher than the longer 50 milers - and certainly closer to that than actually sprinting.
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Graham K
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Graham K » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:58 pm

oldwelshman wrote:Sorry but there is a big difference between high tempo blast and a sprint. If you mean do high tempo ride just say that, sprint efforts are much shorter duration but also have their benefits.


Sorry but I will check and re-check each post I make to ensure the pedantic farts on the forum aint awoken :wink:


And just to declare, what you class as a sprint and what I class as a sprint may be different :wink:

oldwelshman
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby oldwelshman » Fri Jan 04, 2013 23:23 pm

Graham K wrote:
oldwelshman wrote:Sorry but there is a big difference between high tempo blast and a sprint. If you mean do high tempo ride just say that, sprint efforts are much shorter duration but also have their benefits.


Sorry but I will check and re-check each post I make to ensure the pedantic farts on the forum aint awoken :wink:


And just to declare, what you class as a sprint and what I class as a sprint may be different :wink:

Yes I class a sprint as a sprint a bollox out max effort, yours is a tempo ride so not sure what you would call flat out 200m effort if your one hour effort is a sprint 8) tomorrow I am going out for a 5 hour sprint then :wink:

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Rick Chasey » Fri Jan 04, 2013 23:52 pm

Time in saddle ≈ faster/fitter rider.

Once you start plateauing when you have been putting in the hours for quite a time, then you can start splitting hairs about different kinds of efforts and training.

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briantrumpet
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby briantrumpet » Fri Jan 04, 2013 23:56 pm

Graham K wrote:Sorry but I will check and re-check each post I make to ensure the pedantic farts on the forum aint awoken [...] And just to declare, what you class as a sprint and what I class as a sprint may be different

There is sometimes good reason to veer towards pedantry, as if we can use terms consistently then misunderstandings are more likely to be avoided (it's really the basis of how we manage to communicate ideas through the use of words). After all, we wouldn't want a thread where the distinct concepts of strength and power got confused, would we?

Johncp
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Re: Building strength for hilly rides

Postby Johncp » Sat Jan 05, 2013 09:17 am

briantrumpet wrote:
Graham K wrote:Sorry but I will check and re-check each post I make to ensure the pedantic farts on the forum aint awoken [...] And just to declare, what you class as a sprint and what I class as a sprint may be different

There is sometimes good reason to veer towards pedantry, as if we can use terms consistently then misunderstandings are more likely to be avoided (it's really the basis of how we manage to communicate ideas through the use of words). After all, we wouldn't want a thread where the distinct concepts of strength and power got confused, would we?


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