Over 50's road race training

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
chilipapa
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Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Fri Jan 04, 2013 18:43 pm

I'd be interested in looking at your training and how you perform.
At 53 the variation/gulf in performance of riders in this age bracket seems enormous.
After two years of working very hard my results (if you could call them that) are still very poor. In LVRC circuit races about 11th'ish and BC cyclo cross later third of the field. But in perspective I'm lying equal 4th for over 50's in my league.
This year I'm trying weight loss, which I can afford to do.
My training isn't scientific, I work with the club 2nd cats. And I use nothing to assist performance and I have no specific diet rules.
Anyone got a magic solution?
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GiantMike
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby GiantMike » Fri Jan 04, 2013 18:51 pm

Without knowing what specific training you are doing and what LVRC races are like it's hard to give advice.

Where do you think you have a weakness relative to other riders?
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chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:14 pm

GiantMike wrote:Without knowing what specific training you are doing and what LVRC races are like it's hard to give advice.

Where do you think you have a weakness relative to other riders?


Slow starter, brought up on longer races.
No top end
Slower climber, though that's probably the weight I shouldn't have.

At the end of 2012 LVRC races I did better when I got involved from the get go? which just seems to add to my confused state.
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cyco2
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby cyco2 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:23 pm

How can anybody give you a rational answer when you don't give a proper spec. about yourself. At the moment it reads like your training is sloppy unstructured, you're hugely over weight and asking for a boost of performance drugs (magic solution). :wink:
...................................................................................................

If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.

chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:40 pm

cyco2 wrote:How can anybody give you a rational answer when you don't give a proper spec. about yourself. At the moment it reads like your training is sloppy unstructured, you're hugely over weight and asking for a boost of performance drugs (magic solution). :wink:


I rode with younger riders, they're newish and got results, but in hindsight just riding hard to keep up wasn't the answer. I also banked on racing improving me, which it did to a small extent. But basically I just rode long hard miles and raced a lot.
I'm 5'8" and over 12 stone, which is a good 1.5 stone over what I should be

I am embarking on a bit of a more structured plan for 2013. One is weight loss. I will be doing speed work on a 4.5 mile road race circuit local to me with the club. The distance rides will be upped but slowed down slightly.
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JGSI
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby JGSI » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:53 pm

In the same boat as in vet racing LVRC and TLI cat d age group for 2 more years.
In some ways I am biding my time to get up a cat :wink:

My training is as structured as it is going to get without going fully 'pro' by winning the lottery.
Thats currently 30 - 40 hours permonth a lot of it turbo work with TrainerRoad.
Really keeping tabs on the weight and making concerted effort to lose up to 11 lbs before racing starts in March.
I know I perform better in road races not crits and I just accept that my hill climbing is dire but I can just about endure the pain when called upon.
Having severe words with oneself about not being bunch fodder sometimes helps
Thats me.. for you... well decide on some small changes for this season and work on those.

Main aim is to enjoy the racing.

twotyred
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby twotyred » Fri Jan 04, 2013 19:56 pm

Slow starter, brought up on longer races


What do you do for a warm up?

chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Fri Jan 04, 2013 21:10 pm

twotyred wrote:
Slow starter, brought up on longer races


What do you do for a warm up?


Basically 40 mins to an hour warm on circuit if possible. I wind it up, but scare away from any hard efforts.
That said I've recently found that if I do a hard short effort, things feel a little easier afterwards.
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chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Sat Jan 05, 2013 07:25 am

Off this morning to meet the guys from the club who will be racing in 2013. And the coach that will be helping us. We also have a sponsor for the year, and that's drawn in some riders from outside.
So this could be very interesting, especially as I'm the most senior racer.....by far.
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twotyred
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby twotyred » Sat Jan 05, 2013 13:17 pm

That said I've recently found that if I do a hard short effort, things feel a little easier afterwards


You need to get some harder efforts into your warm up. Include a couple of sprints as well.

chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Sat Jan 05, 2013 14:40 pm

I think that might be the key. I was a bit wary, you know keeping the powder dry. But on the group turbo training sessions, a hard effort makes what went before far easier.

I met the new race team today. I think it'll be a great help being with this lot. The sense of having a purpose was instant.
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cyco2
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby cyco2 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 07:07 am

Getting the weight off will give you a tremendous boost because in RR accelerations and slopes/hills are significant if you carry excess baggage. Because the vet races are short I would suggest you pick out those elements that you're weak on and do concentrated efforts. I.e pyramid sprints and 10 mile tt's on flat and hilly courses. Just make the training hard for short periods.
What is your max. and rest heart rate ?
...................................................................................................



If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.

However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.

giropaul
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby giropaul » Sun Jan 06, 2013 16:24 pm

chilipapa wrote:
cyco2 wrote:How can anybody give you a rational answer when you don't give a proper spec. about yourself. At the moment it reads like your training is sloppy unstructured, you're hugely over weight and asking for a boost of performance drugs (magic solution). :wink:


I rode with younger riders, they're newish and got results, but in hindsight just riding hard to keep up wasn't the answer. I also banked on racing improving me, which it did to a small extent. But basically I just rode long hard miles and raced a lot.
I'm 5'8" and over 12 stone, which is a good 1.5 stone over what I should be

I am embarking on a bit of a more structured plan for 2013. One is weight loss. I will be doing speed work on a 4.5 mile road race circuit local to me with the club. The distance rides will be upped but slowed down slightly.


My thoughts:

LVRC (circuit races especially) are about 1 to 1.5 hours at the most; many shorter. Therefore you don't need hard long miles once the season starts. What you will need is speed.

By training with the local 2nd cat youngsters are you leaving it all in the training? Speed work with them will be useful, but only done without getting tired.

Racing is, in my view, the best way to get speed - are you doing enough of it? (2 to 3 events a week, not all to try to get a place necessarily). I used to use 3rd cat mid-week races as training.

This may be controversial, but I'd forget about the weight bit. Look around at the riders who are winning the circuit races - some of them aren't exactly whippets, the same goes for guys who win kermis courses in Belgium - look at Niko Eekhout for instance. We aren't talking big climbs here. Work on strength instead, jumping out of corners in a big gear. I won, and got top 3 places, in quite a few LVRC events in my 40s and early 50s at 15-16 stone+.

Please don't be offended, but how experienced are you? Many of the 50-60 LVRC guys are ex pros and 1st cats. They know every wrinkle and tactic. They never go on the front unless there's a reason. Find an experienced rider in your race, and track him.

Are you picking the right races? Circuit races aren't everyone's ideal. If you're more of a climber go for the LVRC races that are listed a "hilly" (otherwise described as undulating in Yorkshire :lol: )

If fast starts are an issue, do long intervals (say 5 minutes or so) at full gas.

Get to Belgium with a TLI licence and ride WAOD or similar - ideally every other day. Fast starts will never seem as fast after these races!

Finally, and this is something I learnt - be realistic. Some of these guys in LVRC races were winning big races when I was a run of the mill amateur. If you couldn't beat them when you were in your 20s then it's a big ask to beat the same people in your 50s - there is such a thing as natural class and talent! It's rumoured Malc Elliott may turn up at some - fancy your chances in a gallop?

Edit - I got my Nikos wrong, I meant Niko Eekhout - now amended
Last edited by giropaul on Sun Jan 06, 2013 17:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

giropaul
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby giropaul » Sun Jan 06, 2013 16:34 pm

One important thing I forgot - rest enough. A succesful vet once told me that as a 20 year old he rested (proper, legs up rest) for a hour for every hour of training. As a 50 year old he needed 2 hours for every hour of training.

chilipapa
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Re: Over 50's road race training

Postby chilipapa » Sun Jan 06, 2013 17:24 pm

Please don't be offended, but how experienced are you? Many of the 50-60 LVRC guys are ex pros and 1st cats. They know every wrinkle and tactic. They never go on the front unless there's a reason. Find an experienced rider in your race, and track him.


I started in 75. I was never good, breaking top ten occasionally. Just a grafter. Spent too many years off roading.

Just done my tenth cross race of the season, and that's just exposed weak core strength.
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