Bianchi or De Rosa?

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Churchill123
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Churchill123 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:35 pm

LittlePlums wrote:Not sure I agree with the comparison with Raleigh, but what we are talking about is reasonably high end bikes that are widely available. Most manufacturers have a range of bikes that fit that description, so comparing with (solely) Raleigh is a little unkind.

Bianchi are possibly more akin to Alfa Romeo (without the questionable service record) in the car world. They have pedigree, they have a certain cache, but no, they are not unique, and they are at somewhat of a premium if all you are concerned with is statistics. How they ride/drive and how they make you feel are more esoteric and how can you put a price tag on that?

Life is about more than a gram or two here or the exact number of titanium bolts that have been used. Choose the bike that will make you want to go out and ride the damned thing, which even though your head knows the frame was made in Korea, your heart can over ride it with images of it being assembled lovingly by hand in Milan.

La passione ci guida or Vorsprung durch technik?



This guy talks sense! - So what if its made in Taiwan if you want to think of being hand crafted in Italy and due to that you get pleasure when ridding it, and ultimately that gets you out on your bike more often than if you were riding a Giant or Trek then believe away!

Dregsi76
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Dregsi76 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:45 pm

Teisetrotter wrote:
letap73 wrote:
smidsy wrote:
Dregsi76 wrote:
SmoggySteve wrote:If you want an Italian bike that looks awesome, get a Basso

Basso?


Yes Basso. Nothing to do with Ivan either.

Small family business and their frames/forks ARE handmade in Italy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/77946148@N ... hotostream


Very very cheap for Italian hand built and with Athena groupset:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/basso-astra-athena-2011/


WHAT AN ABSOLUTE BARGAIN!


Shame it's not available in my size :-(

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Rolf F
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Rolf F » Thu Jan 10, 2013 15:10 pm

Churchill123 wrote:This guy talks sense! - So what if its made in Taiwan if you want to think of being hand crafted in Italy and due to that you get pleasure when ridding it, and ultimately that gets you out on your bike more often than if you were riding a Giant or Trek then believe away!


In that case, why not believe your Trek or Giant is lovingly hand made on the shores of Lake Como then as well? :wink:
Faster than a tent.......

SmoggySteve
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby SmoggySteve » Thu Jan 10, 2013 15:14 pm

Cos Treks are ridden by drugs cheats!!

nochekmate
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby nochekmate » Thu Jan 10, 2013 15:40 pm

SmoggySteve wrote:Cos Treks are ridden by drugs cheats!!


If we did not ride bikes with these associations, then we could probably rule out riding bikes from most of the major manufacturers, including some of the pseudo-Italian brands.

SmoggySteve
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby SmoggySteve » Thu Jan 10, 2013 15:44 pm

Some of the pseudo Italian brands had a name and reputation before the drugs even entered the sport. Whereas some names were only made famous by the cheats who rode them.

nochekmate
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby nochekmate » Thu Jan 10, 2013 20:25 pm

SmoggySteve wrote:Some of the pseudo Italian brands had a name and reputation before the drugs even entered the sport. Whereas some names were only made famous by the cheats who rode them.


Can you date that exactly then?

SmoggySteve
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby SmoggySteve » Thu Jan 10, 2013 21:08 pm

If you mean can I date drugs cheats, I would say the very date they started making them illegal. Before that DATE they were not cheating if there was no law to break.

If people were taking PES's before they were made illegal then so be it. As soon as they do ban them, anyone who breaches the rules in a blatant cheat. And they further use over the years of taking them and gaining success from it is even more despicable.

SmoggySteve
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby SmoggySteve » Thu Jan 10, 2013 21:11 pm

And, as far as the Tour de France goes, That DATE was June 1965

LittlePlums
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby LittlePlums » Thu Jan 10, 2013 23:32 pm

nochekmate wrote:
SmoggySteve wrote:Some of the pseudo Italian brands had a name and reputation before the drugs even entered the sport. Whereas some names were only made famous by the cheats who rode them.


Can you date that exactly then?


I think it was some time in 1886, so to be on the safe side, we'll say any manufacturers around before that date are fine.

Anyone think of a brand?

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?
Pride and joy: Bianchi Sempre
Commuting hack: Cube Nature

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springtide9
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby springtide9 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 07:53 am

SmoggySteve wrote:Some of the pseudo Italian brands had a name and reputation before the drugs even entered the sport. Whereas some names were only made famous by the cheats who rode them.


Read this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-Madmen-His ... 0007433247

Drugs and extreme endurance sports have gone hand in hand since time began. Not sure why you singled out Trek. I guess because of LA... but in LA's reign, you'd be pushed to find any cyclist that finished in the top 20 at any prestigious event, that was riding clean.

If you want a brand ridden only by 'clean' riders, you'd best hope would be to look something without any pedigree or a brand that wasn't used for professional racing.
-------------------------------

As for choosing an Italian frame... I like the look of the Guerciotti frames from PX:
http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/c/q/fra ... tti_frames

Personally I'd get something that was either great value or unique [ but obviously, 'you like' ]
Last edited by springtide9 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 08:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

nochekmate
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby nochekmate » Fri Jan 11, 2013 08:37 am

SmoggySteve wrote:And, as far as the Tour de France goes, That DATE was June 1965


I think that that is probably a little naive but I can understand the frustration with LA (oh and I have a Trek 6.9 :lol: )

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Rolf F
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Rolf F » Fri Jan 11, 2013 09:17 am

springtide9 wrote:Not sure why you singled out Trek. I guess because of LA... but in LA's reign, you'd be pushed to find any cyclist that finished in the top 20 at any prestigious event, that was riding clean.


It would be because arguably no other manufacturer has hung it's colours quite so firmly to a drug ridden flag. Trek put all their eggs in Lances basket - he always rode their bikes whatever team he was in and Trek deliberately associated their brand with Armstrong in a way that I don't recall any other company has.
Faster than a tent.......

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inseine
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby inseine » Fri Jan 11, 2013 09:20 am

I think it was some time in 1886, so to be on the safe side, we'll say any manufacturers around before that date are fine.


You need to get yourself a Peugeot, around since 1882! Actually Bianchi just scrape in too.

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springtide9
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby springtide9 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 09:46 am

Rolf F wrote:
springtide9 wrote:Not sure why you singled out Trek. I guess because of LA... but in LA's reign, you'd be pushed to find any cyclist that finished in the top 20 at any prestigious event, that was riding clean.


It would be because arguably no other manufacturer has hung it's colours quite so firmly to a drug ridden flag. Trek put all their eggs in Lances basket - he always rode their bikes whatever team he was in and Trek deliberately associated their brand with Armstrong in a way that I don't recall any other company has.


It's very easy to look back on history with hindsight. I'm sure if Trek knew the future it wouldn't have acted as it did.

Trek exists to sell bikes. The reason it sponsors teams and riders to get advertising from the sponsors to sell bikes. If Trek had to pay large sums of money to get exclusivity with the US Postal Team, why wouldn't they make the most of it? If Trek wasn't in the picture, there would well have been just other successful bike manufacturer in the picture.

You have to remember that at the time, LA was a hero. In many people's eyes he still is. His fight with cancer is remarkable; and the fact he recovered to be able to race is even more amazing. He raced on a level playing field when drug use was mainstream, and won the tour multiple times.

Look at the top riders of 2000: http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdf2000.html
Google : " <rider name> doping "
Work your way down the list. This is why I guess no one else had been given "LA stripped" TDF titles.

Sport personalities all over the world are being paid for advertising, just look a the Virgin Media campaign.
If (god forbid) any of these athletes are found out to be "drug cheats", then I'm sure people will be very quick to forget how they were 'ecstatic' over the performance of some individuals during the 2012 Olympics, and will be very quick in criticising VM for their ad campaigns.
Simon

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springtide9
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby springtide9 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:57 pm

What about a HOY bike?

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/arti ... ate-36149/

Keeping it clean but British(ish)
Simon

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lotus49
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby lotus49 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 13:29 pm

springtide9 wrote:It's very easy to look back on history with hindsight.

Is there any other way :wink: .

springtide9 wrote:I'm sure if Trek knew the future it wouldn't have acted as it did.

I wonder about this. If, as expected, LA goes on Oprah and cries and says how sorry he is, there will be a queue of people and companies lining up to sue him. Where they will have a problem is proving they are actually out of pocket as a result of his being a cheat.

Trek still sold all those bikes. There may be a slight dip in sales now but proving that is LA's fault will be next to impossible and they did get the benefit of the publicity at the time. Taking everything into account, I think Trek did all right out of its relationship with LA.

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Rolf F
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Rolf F » Fri Jan 11, 2013 14:48 pm

lotus49 wrote:
springtide9 wrote:I'm sure if Trek knew the future it wouldn't have acted as it did.

I wonder about this. If, as expected, LA goes on Oprah and cries and says how sorry he is, there will be a queue of people and companies lining up to sue him. Where they will have a problem is proving they are actually out of pocket as a result of his being a cheat.

Trek still sold all those bikes. There may be a slight dip in sales now but proving that is LA's fault will be next to impossible and they did get the benefit of the publicity at the time. Taking everything into account, I think Trek did all right out of its relationship with LA.


Exactly. It's a bit like the point about whether or not Lance has been a positive influence on the sport or negative. A decade of positives followed by a year or so of negative which the public will soon forget about (even if we don't) - and in the meantime, a vast increase in US interest and take up in cycling (at least that is the impression I get) because of Lance. As for Trek - I'm sure they've benefited greatly overall even if they are paying for it a little now.

That said, I think with hindsight Trek definitely wouldn't have got involved in the way they did - if you knew how things would pan out you'd play it differently (even if that meant just making the relationship a little less cosy and tight).
Faster than a tent.......

Careca
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby Careca » Sat Jan 12, 2013 14:19 pm

Whatever bike you go for it is really important to actually see one in the flesh, otherwise, when you actually see them in the flesh they can be a real disappointment.

There's a nice Bottecchia Mille Athena size 48 available with decent discount at the moment.

nochekmate
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Re: Bianchi or De Rosa?

Postby nochekmate » Sun Jan 13, 2013 07:46 am

No surprise that a size 48 has a decent discount.


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