Oscar points finger at Football

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Trev The Rev
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:27 pm

Pross wrote:Is HGH even that much of a benefit in a footballer? Maybe in a big, powerful central defender or striker but a player like Messi is all about skill so not really much help there or does it alos improve attributes like speed? Given the amount of steroid use in low level amateur rugby I wouldn't be at all surprised to see HGH being used systematically at the highest levels. Teams going off to use the cryo chamber in Poland sets alarm bells ringing for me. Whilst the increase in size and speed is no doubt in part down to the professional era and players doing daily speed and weight training sessions the increase in size of backs (in particular) is huge. Whilst Jonah Lomu would still be bigger than most today he was considered a 'freak' by Carling at the time and there are now many players who are getting close to him in terms of size whilst maintaining their speed. No doubt some are just naturally built that way but it is starting to become the norm. I hope I'm wrong on this but the cynicism of years watching cycling make me fear I might not be.


Lomu was a freak not due to his size, but due to his ability to run 100m in about 10.5 sec, which made him as fast as wingers who weighed about 6 stone less than him. I don't think even today there are backs as big and fast as Lomu was.

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ddraver
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby ddraver » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:31 pm

Hmm, I'm with Pross here.

The biggest change to Rugby has been professionalism and with it, the ability to train 24/7. Remember the Brian Moore used to go back to work as a solicitor on Monday morning, the Underwood's went back to flying fighter jets etc...
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Macaloon
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Macaloon » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:34 pm

"But as one of our contributors put it: would there have been a similar level of acceptance if Toure was a cyclist or an athlete?" http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... ll-feature

And this belter from pre-history (2003): http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/3333091.stm

A quick search found a mere handful of recreational busts since Rio's derisory 8 month ban. Hard to believe given the woefully extended careers of box-box donkeys.
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Richmond Racer
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Richmond Racer » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:36 pm

ddraver wrote:Hmm, I'm with Pross here.

The biggest change to Rugby has been professionalism and with it, the ability to train 24/7. Remember the Brian Moore used to go back to work as a solicitor on Monday morning, the Underwood's MUM went back to flying fighter jets etc...



FTFY

dougzz
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby dougzz » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:48 pm

chrisday wrote:The old footie adage still holds true - "A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un"...

Messi is not big but I'm pretty sure he'd be the first name on any team sheet given the chance. But then I guess the Argentinian national side would contradict that.

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chrisday
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby chrisday » Wed Jan 23, 2013 13:04 pm

dougzz wrote:
chrisday wrote:The old footie adage still holds true - "A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un"...

Messi is not big but I'm pretty sure he'd be the first name on any team sheet given the chance. But then I guess the Argentinian national side would contradict that.


Ah, don't go ruining my generalisations with bl00dy facts! Where's the fun in that?

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skavanagh.bikeradar
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby skavanagh.bikeradar » Wed Jan 23, 2013 13:06 pm

This proves that we truly are in a virtual pub.

Pollys Bott
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Pollys Bott » Wed Jan 23, 2013 13:26 pm

Pross wrote:Given the amount of steroid use in low level amateur rugby I wouldn't be at all surprised to see HGH being used systematically at the highest levels... Whilst the increase in size and speed is no doubt in part down to the professional era and players doing daily speed and weight training sessions the increase in size of backs (in particular) is huge. Whilst Jonah Lomu would still be bigger than most today he was considered a 'freak' by Carling at the time and there are now many players who are getting close to him in terms of size whilst maintaining their speed. No doubt some are just naturally built that way but it is starting to become the norm. I hope I'm wrong on this but the cynicism of years watching cycling make me fear I might not be.


+1

Maybe it's my eyesight, or coincidence, or both; but some of the Welsh backs in particular are ridiculously big and seem to have jaws a la Thunderbirds puppets... (thickening of the jaw bone being a consequence of growth hormone excess). Look at Phillips, Hook, Roberts; and, lest anyone think I'm being Celtic-ist, Chris Ashton, Dan Carter, any Tuilagi...

Allegedly, of course...

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ddraver
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby ddraver » Wed Jan 23, 2013 14:54 pm

Phillips, Hook and Roberts just look Welsh! No one can help them with such an affliction, it doesnt mean they re dopers! Rob Brydon looks the same, and I'd be very surprised if he's on HGH.

The Tuilagis look like any south sea Islanders

Dan Carter and Chris Ashton are small by Rugby standards
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Salsiccia1
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Salsiccia1 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 16:51 pm

ddraver wrote:Phillips, Hook and Roberts just look Welsh! No one can help them with such an affliction, it doesnt mean they re dopers! Rob Brydon looks the same, and I'd be very surprised if he's on HGH.

The Tuilagis look like any south sea Islanders

Dan Carter and Chris Ashton are small by Rugby standards


What about Martin Johnson? I know he stoped playing a few years ago, but just look at that forehead...

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Monty Dog
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby Monty Dog » Thu Jan 24, 2013 22:09 pm

Ah, the old chestnut "football is all about skill...no need for drugs" what a load of BS - you can be the most skilful player in the world, but if you run out of legs after 60 minutes, you're not much use.
What part of drugs allowing you to build strength, train harder and recover from injury faster isn't desirable in a professional footballer?
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

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RichN95
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Re: Oscar points finger at Football

Postby RichN95 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 22:30 pm

ddraver wrote:Phillips, Hook and Roberts just look Welsh! No one can help them with such an affliction, it doesnt mean they re dopers! Rob Brydon looks the same, and I'd be very surprised if he's on HGH.

Quite. Big jaws are fairly prevalent in South Wales. Cerys Matthews is another good example.

I often used to see Jamie Roberts quite a lot as a friend of his lives opposite me. While he's certainly big, he's not freak big. I see bigger freaks in amateur rugby - particularly in valleys teams. I've also seen Phillips and he's is pretty average looking. Hook's a big old lump though. But being big is no sign of anything. George North is massive, but he's been like that since he hit puberty and looks nothing like a druggy (I'm sure Blazing Saddles would agree :wink: )
If their was a roider in the Wales team, I'd been looking more towards Halfpenny (not that I know anything at all).
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