buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

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johnsouthwales
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buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby johnsouthwales » Thu Jan 31, 2013 16:33 pm

any ideas where someone would stand in this scenario? eg, guarentee, insuring it and the like.

say for example a bike was donated, raffle organisers raised £500, bike worth £400, ticket cost £1.
if the winner didn't want the bike and sold it for £200, how does the new owner value it for insurance, and what happens if it was stolen? Insurance companies always ask for the purchase receipt to prove it was owners bike.

then again, that is another situation, how does someone who won the bike insure it? i suppose it goes on a value if it is stolen, so to me if someone spent 50p on a ticket and won, if it got taken, the insurance will have to fork out the value irresespective of what was paid.

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njee20
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby njee20 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 16:40 pm

It's a second hand bike, it's no different to buying a bike off a mate. The insurance company may request a valuation, any LBS should be able to provide one.

johnsouthwales
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby johnsouthwales » Thu Jan 31, 2013 16:56 pm

i'd be tempted to buy one depending on the price. can the guarentee be transferred over to the new owner if the bike is unused? it doesn't sound too appetising if the frame cracks (just i case) and no come back.

then again, someone may well say they won it in a raffle - best thing to do is ask for confirmation that they are the winner, just to be on the safe side.. just because someone has a spanking new bike and the manuals, doesn't mean 100% that they won it or bought it. it could have been robbed from a shop in the box or lorry, tut

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njee20
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby njee20 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 17:03 pm

Grey area, depends a little how it's handled. Someone must have the paperwork for that bike - if the bike shop is simply providing the receipt to the winner, then you could fiddle it so the buyer gets the paperwork. If they have given it to the people to whom they donated the bike (or if they've done it on the fiddle and haven't 'sold' it) then no, the warranty isn't transferable.

You get into statutory rights and sale of goods and that though, so you have some recourse regardless.

I'd suggest you're over thinking it.

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Briggo
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby Briggo » Thu Jan 31, 2013 18:14 pm

johnsouthwales wrote:i'd be tempted to buy one depending on the price. can the guarentee be transferred over to the new owner if the bike is unused? it doesn't sound too appetising if the frame cracks (just i case) and no come back.

then again, someone may well say they won it in a raffle - best thing to do is ask for confirmation that they are the winner, just to be on the safe side.. just because someone has a spanking new bike and the manuals, doesn't mean 100% that they won it or bought it. it could have been robbed from a shop in the box or lorry, tut


If its a raffle prize and it cost a quid a ticket, it breaks big deal it gets stolen big deal.

If your buying said bike second hand then you don't have a warranty and its insured for whatever the insurers terms are, I.e. new for old.

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Levi_501
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby Levi_501 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 18:59 pm

Read the policy wording; it should say how sum insured is calculated.

johnsouthwales
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby johnsouthwales » Fri Feb 01, 2013 17:30 pm

briggs, the raffle winner has more recompense (if the word is right)than a buyer has. the guarentee has to be supplied by the donator to a competition winner.
if it got stolen, it is a big deal judging by the national menace of thefts. If the owner has it insured, they will replace.

anyways, it does look that even if it is brand new, it still is classed as used which is unfortunate. if it was still in the box it would be new so there maybe a chance there. It could be the donator built the bike up, maybe the best way is to contact the donator..
but if the donator is someone who bought a bike and no longer wants it, or some flood damaged shop, it wouldn't be in anybody's interests to supply a dodgy bike as a raffle prize.
It wouldn't look too good if a prize fell apart on a road and caused an accident, even if the intentions are good.

maybe i am looking too much into it but it's for the best. The more i'm looking, the more i'm tempted to walk away, it's the opposite of what i first thought. Probably there is little chance of the frame going but it won't be the first time in history a frame is faulty or some other glitch. or the paint starts peeling.

from what i see, the owner hasn't ridden it, so how can he tell there is nothing wrong with it if he hasn't touched it.
Maybe it would be best if a seller does ride on it to test it out. But doing that is definitely not new anymore.
I would have been happier if the owner has it for 3 months, gone through it's check up and tweeking. Or at least ridden it on a tidy surface for five minutes, but doing that and leaving it untouched for 3 months isn't really solving anything, it'll be idle and not allowing the parts to be moved or stretched.

It'll be the same thing if someone won a 42 inch tv in a raffle or competition if they sell it. Usually if a holiday for 4 is won, the named winner cannot sell the winning.

the only way i can think of is if the seller agrees to act as 'original owner' as a goodwill gesture, and if anything does go wrong, they can return it to the shop on your behalf (if it was a shop that supplied it). But could well be a nuisance if the seller is 200 miles away or whatever. Usually a shop asks a buyer to bring the bike back to the shop for it's free 3 month check up, so how would that work if a seller hasn't a clue who supplied it.

At the end of the day, it does look like selling an unwanted prize is like buying a brand new second hand bike.

There wouldn't be a problem with insurance, according to bike insurer says a new bike is valued for the first 3 years, even though the proof is there that it is new, it'll be a case of presenting that evidence to the insurer if there was a disagreement.

Out of curiosity, what if someone has a brand new bike in a box untouched from 12 months ago? it wouldn't really be in their interests as the guarentee has lapsed anyway, so if it was defective after supply and dodgy, there would be some form of backup if purchased from somehwere like ebay etc - goods fit for purpose which is covered by sales of goods act, but everything else is sold as seen - which would be impossible via sites like ebay because seldom goods are actually seen (except through a vague photo which would not demonstrate the mechanical side of things, and vague descriptions).

The manufacturers will know what bike has been supplied to who through distribution, so it won't be easy to hand over the guarentee anyway and keep quiet. Some shop in carmarthen will find out through the guarentee that the original point was in skegness, as most places would tell you to take it back to the shop that sold it (or in a raffle's case, the one that supplied it).

But what if the prize is a 2011 model or january 2012? then again, a brand new car in a showroom is usually a few months old and guarentee starts from the point of sale

johnsouthwales
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby johnsouthwales » Fri Feb 01, 2013 17:50 pm

njee20 wrote:Grey area, depends a little how it's handled. Someone must have the paperwork for that bike - if the bike shop is simply providing the receipt to the winner, then you could fiddle it so the buyer gets the paperwork. If they have given it to the people to whom they donated the bike (or if they've done it on the fiddle and haven't 'sold' it) then no, the warranty isn't transferable.

You get into statutory rights and sale of goods and that though, so you have some recourse regardless.

I'd suggest you're over thinking it.


yeah maybe i'm overthinking but i wouldn't have realized how much grey there is. it could be a donation to gain some tax relief or flood damage write off but of course there was only an inch of water.
I seen a couple of winners recently selling their unwanted bikes, daft as it seems, i could pick up a bargain and solve my own problem or part of it, and protecting my own interests.

I would go spare if the crank bearing went if i spent say £200 on a bike worth £300 as an unwanted prize. I was told before that not all parts on a shop purchased bike are covered by the guarentee anyway, which sounded a bit unbelievable and i thought what??

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cooldad
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby cooldad » Fri Feb 01, 2013 19:47 pm

Tax relief? Flood damage?
Jesus, just look at it as a second hand bike, value accordingly and either buy it or don't.
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anj132
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby anj132 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 20:42 pm

Did you buy a raffle ticket then?

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njee20
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby njee20 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 22:13 pm

Are you the guy from STW who had his bike nicked from Ammanford?!

If a bike is bought in a box you void the manufacturers warranty - it must be built by a registered dealer. The key is not the format the bike is received, it's about the paperwork - if the shop gives proof of purchase to the raffle winner the he is the original owner. This cannot be transferred.

Again though, you're really making obscenely heavy weather of this.

If you want the bike then buy it. You'll get it far cheaper than you would in a shop, the trade off is the potential issues you have in having no manufacturers warranty.

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nicklouse
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby nicklouse » Fri Feb 01, 2013 22:16 pm

njee20 wrote:Are you the guy from STW who had his bike nicked from Ammanford?!


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njee20
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby njee20 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 22:45 pm

Aaaah right. Seemed to much of a coincidence. Explains a lot.

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cooldad
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby cooldad » Fri Feb 01, 2013 22:47 pm

Just wow.
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Re: buying a bike that's been won in a raffle

Postby appy » Sat Feb 02, 2013 00:30 am

cooldad wrote:Just wow.


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