Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

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DonDaddyD
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Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby DonDaddyD » Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:53 am

The sequel to the very successful: Greg, can we now get rid of Osborne please?

I'm now asking [Greg - Osborne's greatest supporter. Some say he has a shrine in his house dedicated to him and that he likes to be called George when in bed....] whether I can punch him in the face!

Why?

Well, Osborne, when in opposition, led us to believe that the UK losing its triple A (AAA) credit rating WAS THE WORST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN. He used this fear mongering to justify hacking and slashing public sector services and benefits*, continually telling us that it was the last Government's fault. He lorded it over Labour that the UK initially kept its AAA credit rating when other countries (France, the USA) had lost theirs. The UK kept its credit rating on the premise that Osborne's economic policy would do a few things:

(i). Cut public spending
(ii). Reduce the deficit
(iii). Somehow deliver economic growth (but he never really got to that bit).

It has done none of the above. We are borrowing more, the deficit isn't being reduced and the economy isn't really growing, it was, albeit artificially so, right up until the last election. We were in economic recovery.

So because Osborne's plan has failed we've lost our AAA rating and what does he have to say?
<< Paraphrase >>

It doesn't matter.

I was right all along, its the last Government's fault.

My plan is working.

<</Paraphrase>>

Now, sure, if every country or the Western World's most significant economies/currencies have their credit rating dropped then it creates a near as can be level playing field. The point is that his plan isn't working, hasn't worked and the Country is arguably worse off than when he was given the reigns.

(You need to spend to encourage enconomic growth. Economic growth is the only way you can recover from a recession and pay back a deficit - the solution is a balancing act where you are continually reducing the amount you ae spending. Where labour went wrong is that they invested in public services whereas they should have pumped more money into the private sector up and down the nation as private sector services are more likely to be self sustianing once the public funding is pulled, where as public service rely on public funding). It isn't that hard.
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CiB
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby CiB » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:08 am

Why not start by punching Brown G and Balls E repeatedly and viciously in the face for a couple of days? That would be a lot more satisfying and more deserving on their part too.

I love amateur World Economics threads. They raise the mood with the simpleton 'Govt doesn't know what it's doing why don't they do what I can see is the obvious answer?' approach to it all. :)

estampida
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby estampida » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:09 am

yes, yes you can

we should have taken the hit with all the QE 4 years ago, but no struggle on, pay off the bank debts, and we are still here stuck in sh1t

its all down to the old fuddy duddys and voting....

David got voted in cos "he has nice pick cheeks and his wife has nice teeth".... "dont like that 1 eyed scotsman"

and as Osborne is worth millions....... so he has no idea how the real UK works and survives

we need a change and it needs to be now, 2 years from now the conservatives will be bribing for a second term.............

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walkingbootweather
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby walkingbootweather » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:13 am

If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.

Your analysis that Private Sector is good and Public Sector is bad is wrong though IMHO.

I'd rather see public money being spent on Housing, Health, Education, Social Care and Infrastructure. Rather than award work to private organisations that need to generate big profits, and then rely on benefit system so that the poor can afford inflated rates, we could build and maintain quality public facilities.
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Rick Chasey
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:26 am

AAA rating was dropped because of poor growth prospects.

Difficult to cut deficits when economic growth is low / non existant, especially with high unemployment.

Osbourne was wrong to stake everything on the credit rating. His arguments on why it doesn't mstter now are broadly right, but that will be lost in the cacophony of howling at the original mistake.

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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby davmaggs » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:37 am

walkingbootweather wrote:If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.


In is nearly always a good rule of thumb that when an internet poster uses the name Gideon, then they are without doubt going to be an idiot. I don't think I've seen an exception to this rule (like those that use EUSSR).

back to the original question for DDD. There have been virtually no cuts, the subject (and the evidence) have been done to death on this forum many times so give it up.

The UK is in for another 10 years of this. The re-trenchment of the state hasn't even yet started, but it will come when the maths finally doesn't add up. Services that so many see as vital or a right are more often than not actually fairly new and unthought of (for the state to be doing) only a couple of decades ago. So adjust your self-entitlement expectations or be badly disappointed.

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TailWindHome
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby TailWindHome » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:37 am

He's rejecting the Dark Side Greg. Do some of that lightning sh*t.
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED? IS THIS NOT WHY YOU ARE HERE?"

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:41 am

davmaggs wrote:
walkingbootweather wrote:If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.


There have been virtually no cuts, t.


Eh?

Evidence?

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notsoblue
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby notsoblue » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:47 am

I think part of the problem is that people accept the overly simplistic solutions to complex economic problems that politicians put forward, and then are surprised and disappointed when reality doesn't neatly align with them.

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walkingbootweather
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby walkingbootweather » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:56 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
davmaggs wrote:
walkingbootweather wrote:If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.


There have been virtually no cuts, t.


Eh?

Evidence?


The cuts, in terms of number of people and services have been far greater than Osborne originally envisaged but this had perversely led to greater net spend because making people redundant, and re-organisation is expensive. The problem is that Osborne can cut budgets to public sector but not really dictate where cuts fall. It would probably have been cheaper and less painful all around if cuts and change had been more gradual.
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby davmaggs » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:59 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
davmaggs wrote:
walkingbootweather wrote:If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.


There have been virtually no cuts, t.


Eh?

Evidence?


Any entire web site dedicated to showing all the numbers:
http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/total ... g_2012UKbn

The trick of course is to take out debt payments and possibly inflation to get real terms numbers.

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Veronese68
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby Veronese68 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:12 pm

CiB wrote:I love amateur World Economics threads. They raise the mood with the simpleton 'Govt doesn't know what it's doing why don't they do what I can see is the obvious answer?' approach to it all. :)

This is why I should go into politics, but I only ever want to be in opposition. Easiest job in the world, just sit there and every time you wake up tell anyone that'll listen that the government doesn't know what it's doing. So long as you don't do anything stupid, like get voted in, you'll never be found out.

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:19 pm

walkingbootweather wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:
davmaggs wrote:
walkingbootweather wrote:If Greg really loved Osborne as you say he'd no doubt like to be called Gideon (his real name) rather than George.


There have been virtually no cuts, t.


Eh?

Evidence?


The cuts, in terms of number of people and services have been far greater than Osborne originally envisaged but this had perversely led to greater net spend because making people redundant, and re-organisation is expensive. The problem is that Osborne can cut budgets to public sector but not really dictate where cuts fall. It would probably have been cheaper and less painful all around if cuts and change had been more gradual.


So there have been cuts. There just isn't a deficit reduction.

Glad we cleared that up.

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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby davmaggs » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:27 pm

Not quite so simply as that blanket statement.

It is easy to point to a particular service to say that it has been cut, particular at the local level. But when you look at overall spending, and even accounting for debt payments then it isn't so black and white.

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DonDaddyD
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby DonDaddyD » Tue Feb 26, 2013 13:29 pm

CiB wrote:Why not start by punching Brown G and Balls E repeatedly and viciously in the face for a couple of days? That would be a lot more satisfying and more deserving on their part too.

I love amateur World Economics threads. They raise the mood with the simpleton 'Govt doesn't know what it's doing why don't they do what I can see is the obvious answer?' approach to it all. :)
Armchair politics. I'm also a World Class football manager and have led Arsenal to the Euro Cup, FA Cup, League Cup and Premier League titles in one season on Championship Manager, I know what Arsene Wenger should do!
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DonDaddyD
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby DonDaddyD » Tue Feb 26, 2013 13:37 pm

DDD wrote:
davidmaggs wrote:There have been virtually no cuts, the subject (and the evidence) have been done to death on this forum many times so give it up.


I put it to you, that you will find in my first post that I said:

DDD originally wrote:The UK kept its credit rating on the premise that Osborne's economic policy would do a few things:

(i). Cut public spending
(ii). Reduce the deficit
(iii). Somehow deliver economic growth (but he never really got to that bit).

It [Osborne's economic policy] has done none of the above. We are borrowing more, the deficit isn't being reduced and the economy isn't really growing, it was, albeit artificially so, right up until the last election. We were in economic recovery.


So where in my post did I say there have been cuts?

I await your apology.
Last edited by DonDaddyD on Tue Feb 26, 2013 13:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game

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walkingbootweather
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby walkingbootweather » Tue Feb 26, 2013 13:41 pm

Perhaps the Bank of England should consider negative interest rates? Sounds to me as if this might be a really good idea.
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walkingbootweather
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby walkingbootweather » Tue Feb 26, 2013 13:44 pm

DDD - think you may have got some of your quotes mixed up above. You may want to edit.

Done - thanks
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby davmaggs » Tue Feb 26, 2013 14:40 pm

I'd say DDD that no-one has to have a degree in English to work out that your hyperbolic phrase "hacking and slashing public sector services and benefits" could also be shortened to "cuts" for the rest of the board.

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DonDaddyD
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Re: Greg, can I now punch Osborne in the face?

Postby DonDaddyD » Tue Feb 26, 2013 15:03 pm

davmaggs wrote:I'd say DDD that no-one has to have a degree in English to work out that your hyperbolic phrase "hacking and slashing public sector services and benefits" could also be shortened to "cuts" for the rest of the board.

No, that is an assumption on your part. A wrong one.

I can prove that funding for public sector services has been hacked/slashed/cut (you choose the preferred hyperbolic term or we can settle on 'reduced'). It is acknowledged that funding to public sector services has been reduced. You almost go as far as writing it yourself:

davmaggs wrote:The problem is that Osborne can cut budgets to public sector but not really dictate where cuts fall.


What you have done is taken what I have written and lept, in error, to an unfounded conclusion. Unfounded because there is no basis for it in my original post save for your assumption of what you think I meant. Astonishing really given that my post clearly stats that he has failed to cut public spending and is borrowing more....

So, unless you can actually point out where in my post I have written what you accuse me of meaning, I think we can accept that you are mistaken, and given your follow up post, in possession of an inability to admit when you are wrong.

DDD
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A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game


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