|
| Author |
Message |
nasahapley
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 606
Location: Wharfedale
 |
 Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:28 am |
| Gazzaputt wrote: |  You know cyclists, well road cyclists in particular, are funny bunch.
I'm sure part of the mentality to accepted to the fold is that you must whine, pour scorn and bleat about everything to do with the sport.
Lance got my backside on a road bike as I expect he did millions of others around the globe.
Fella went through hell and back and came out triumphant. If it was anyone of us that went through what he did and then be able to throw our legs over the bike we'd applaud him and slap them on the back well done.
I think you'll find outside of cycling fraternity the guy is held in high esteem.
Fair play to him and I for one am excited for his comeback. |
Totally agree with this. If it hadn't been for Armstrong's winning streak and the publicity it generated I doubt very much I would have got into road cycling, and I know many other people who could say the same. Although I am now a seriously keen roadie, the professional side of the sport leaves me totally cold for the reasons Gazzaputt outlined in his second paragraph; if a bloke does well most 'proper fans' of the sport would cast aspersions on his probity rather than congratulate him (unless he's British in which case he must be cleaner than the Virgin Mary).
I'm not so naive as to think doping doesn't occur on a large scale in cycling or any other sport, but I'm willing to apply the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Besides, if you get worked up about doping then you should probably stay away from any kind of professional sport, because as long as there's riches and glory on offer then young athletes with a limited time in which to earn them will be tempted to cheat, it'll never change.
Lance's return will get more people interested in road cycling than anything anyone else could have done, yet this is apparently a bad thing because he might not be a very nice chap. Unbelievable.
|
|
|
leguape
Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 986
Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:44 am |
| nasahapley wrote: | | Gazzaputt wrote: | You know cyclists, well road cyclists in particular, are funny bunch.
I'm sure part of the mentality to accepted to the fold is that you must whine, pour scorn and bleat about everything to do with the sport.
Lance got my backside on a road bike as I expect he did millions of others around the globe.
Fella went through hell and back and came out triumphant. If it was anyone of us that went through what he did and then be able to throw our legs over the bike we'd applaud him and slap them on the back well done.
I think you'll find outside of cycling fraternity the guy is held in high esteem.
Fair play to him and I for one am excited for his comeback. |
Totally agree with this. If it hadn't been for Armstrong's winning streak and the publicity it generated I doubt very much I would have got into road cycling, and I know many other people who could say the same. Although I am now a seriously keen roadie, the professional side of the sport leaves me totally cold for the reasons Gazzaputt outlined in his second paragraph; if a bloke does well most 'proper fans' of the sport would cast aspersions on his probity rather than congratulate him (unless he's British in which case he must be cleaner than the Virgin Mary).
I'm not so naive as to think doping doesn't occur on a large scale in cycling or any other sport, but I'm willing to apply the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Besides, if you get worked up about doping then you should probably stay away from any kind of professional sport, because as long as there's riches and glory on offer then young athletes with a limited time in which to earn them will be tempted to cheat, it'll never change.
Lance's return will get more people interested in road cycling than anything anyone else could have done, yet this is apparently a bad thing because he might not be a very nice chap. Unbelievable. |
I agree as well.
|
|
|
andy_wrx
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2091
Location: Cheshire - soft underbelly of the North
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:54 am |
Two threads next to oneanother on the cakestop forum
Lance Armstrong out of Retirement
and
World to end on Wednesday
--------------------------------------
Sigline added back for Nick :-
Because it comes from French, the event is called a 'sportive' (or cyclosportive);
- a 'sportif' is a competitor in one |
|
|
stueyc
Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 400
Location: west yorkshire
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:01 pm |
very well said pottsteve
|
|
|
off the back
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 148
Location:
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:17 pm |
I think Lances comeback is very planned and the team already knows...
The way teh ASO came out and said that he can come back - all is forgiven etc. This has been planned and doors have been knocked on long in advance - if u look at the anti doping sign up statement it would indicate that he will get into the tour only if the team has an anti doping stance - hell maybe even a French team! All this leads me to think that just maybe Lance is not going to Astana - Contador and Levi wil not ride 100% for him, he would have to earn his team leader role.
The Russians have teh money but he does not want money and they dont want anti doping  US teams would be either Columbia / Garmin. JV has not been the biggest lance fan but IF he turned around and said I want to do it clean then I think JV is teh type of guy that would work with him - The PR would be immense. Columbia has GeorgeHincapie so who knows there but would all of this team want to sacrafice everything fro Lance. Also Cervleo mentioned they have amazing riders lined up ... who knows. Eitherway I think teh team has been chosen already we just haven't be told
|
|
|
idaviesmoore
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Location: NORTH WALES-Col D'Back Of Beyond
|
|
|
Blazing Saddles
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 1980
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:11 pm |
Just when you thought things couldn't get any lower.
The Ginger Monster's timing is even worse than his ex-manager's blackmail technique.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2008/sep08/sep10news2
I doubt whether it will cause a ripple around here......
.....Hey, maybe he's signed up with Alistair Campbell? 
|
|
|
idaviesmoore
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 542
Location: NORTH WALES-Col D'Back Of Beyond
|
|
|
Jez mon
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1175
Location: Berkshire/Lufbra
|
|
|
donrhummy
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1239
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:05 pm |
| off the back wrote: | I dont believe the real cycling fans want him back. He epitomizes the darkest period of cyclings history and was central in creating a win at all cost drug taking mentality. The sport has since moved on and it does not need to have him back to remind of how bad it was. Why not just dig up the trial of destruction and lost lives and parade these corpses to all the races to remind us what the last 2 decades have been about. A bad day for cycling 
Lets hope the tour refuse him a start and nip this in the bud! If he shared a flat with Kimmage for teh next 10months I still wouldn't believe he is clean!! |
That's the dumbest, most unfounded statement I've seen on this forum. Isn't the last 4 years the darkest period? During Lance's reign, there were ZERO huge doping scandals. None of the GT winners had their victories taken away, the TDF was not marred by 5 or more people and 2 or more teams being kicked out for doping, pro-cycling was more popular than now, it had better TV coverage (especially in Germany), sponsors were falling all over themselves to get new teams, salaries were up, the UCI and ASO worked well together, etc.
|
|
|
Moomaloid
Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 868
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:08 pm |
I don;'t think any cycling fan will pour scorn on his achievements in recovering from Cancer and the good that he has down for the fight against the disease. I've been wearing a livestrong band since the week they were available in the states.
But i can guarantee that most of the guys on here that are backing him have read very little of the evidence against him. Its stacked up against his argument, and the argument that he's been tested more than anyone else is such a bury your head in the sand comment.
You know deep down i hope he does come back and prove that he was a clean athlete, but i don't think its physically possible. He was my hero, but sadly no more.
CONTADOR - I'm guessing he'll be looking to move on if Lance signs for Astana.
And i totally agree with the miserable cycling cynic comment, the sport is rife with it, but i'm totally not one of these people. I just don't believe anymore.
|
|
|
Jez mon
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1175
Location: Berkshire/Lufbra
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:26 pm |
| donrhummy wrote: | | off the back wrote: | I dont believe the real cycling fans want him back. He epitomizes the darkest period of cyclings history and was central in creating a win at all cost drug taking mentality. The sport has since moved on and it does not need to have him back to remind of how bad it was. Why not just dig up the trial of destruction and lost lives and parade these corpses to all the races to remind us what the last 2 decades have been about. A bad day for cycling
Lets hope the tour refuse him a start and nip this in the bud! If he shared a flat with Kimmage for teh next 10months I still wouldn't believe he is clean!! |
That's the dumbest, most unfounded statement I've seen on this forum. Isn't the last 4 years the darkest period? During Lance's reign, there were ZERO huge doping scandals. None of the GT winners had their victories taken away, the TDF was not marred by 5 or more people and 2 or more teams being kicked out for doping, pro-cycling was more popular than now, it had better TV coverage (especially in Germany), sponsors were falling all over themselves to get new teams, salaries were up, the UCI and ASO worked well together, etc. |
Becuase as well all know, no positive tests=everyone's clean
Then again, I wouldn't call it the darkest, what about heart attacks etc, before the 50% limit was introduced. Or poeple dying due to amphetamines. At least doping during Lance's era was pretty safe and controlled.
You live and learn. At any rate, you live |
|
|
donrhummy
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1239
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:54 pm |
| Jez mon wrote: | | donrhummy wrote: | | off the back wrote: | I dont believe the real cycling fans want him back. He epitomizes the darkest period of cyclings history and was central in creating a win at all cost drug taking mentality. The sport has since moved on and it does not need to have him back to remind of how bad it was. Why not just dig up the trial of destruction and lost lives and parade these corpses to all the races to remind us what the last 2 decades have been about. A bad day for cycling
Lets hope the tour refuse him a start and nip this in the bud! If he shared a flat with Kimmage for teh next 10months I still wouldn't believe he is clean!! |
That's the dumbest, most unfounded statement I've seen on this forum. Isn't the last 4 years the darkest period? During Lance's reign, there were ZERO huge doping scandals. None of the GT winners had their victories taken away, the TDF was not marred by 5 or more people and 2 or more teams being kicked out for doping, pro-cycling was more popular than now, it had better TV coverage (especially in Germany), sponsors were falling all over themselves to get new teams, salaries were up, the UCI and ASO worked well together, etc. |
Becuase as well all know, no positive tests=everyone's clean
Then again, I wouldn't call it the darkest, what about heart attacks etc, before the 50% limit was introduced. Or poeple dying due to amphetamines. At least doping during Lance's era was pretty safe and controlled. |
I never said they were all clean. But to call it the darkest period means it was the time of greatest turmoil, scandal, loss of money, etc. And it was the exact opposite. You could call it the greatest Oz period (as in Wizard of Oz, where everything was great on the surface, glittering like gold but underneath it was a farce) if you wanted, but not the darkest. (I'm not sure I totally agree with that assessment as cheating and performance enhancement goes back to the first TDF's, but I can see that being a more sensible statement)
|
|
|
turnipian
Joined: 07 Feb 2007
Posts: 6
Location:
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:03 pm |
Blimey, what a depressing lot....
Why not just move on, accept it at face value. The guy wants to race again, he may or may not be successful and only he knows the answer to all the questions. He'll be required to play by the current rules, face the scrutiny and the rest is up to him.
Give him a chance!!
And to all the naysayers. You should all be jumping for joy - it's another chance for you to catch him out.
|
|
|
Jez mon
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 1175
Location: Berkshire/Lufbra
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:22 pm |
| donrhummy wrote: |
I never said they were all clean. But to call it the darkest period means it was the time of greatest turmoil, scandal, loss of money, etc. And it was the exact opposite. You could call it the greatest Oz period (as in Wizard of Oz, where everything was great on the surface, glittering like gold but underneath it was a farce) if you wanted, but not the darkest. (I'm not sure I totally agree with that assessment as cheating and performance enhancement goes back to the first TDF's, but I can see that being a more sensible statement) |
I agree to a certain to extent. But for me, the period saw a building up of problems which became clear in the following years. Lance epitomises an era where poeple were visiting a spanish blood clinic. Lance epitomises an era where cycling became one race a year. Lance epitomises an era where the tests didn't work and where many lost all faith in their heroes. It was a dark period for cycling. Sure when Lance retired sponsors went away, drug scandals boiled over and cycling went through a very rough patch, but that was needed so that cycling could gain a new sheen.
You live and learn. At any rate, you live |
|
|
donrhummy
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1239
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:32 pm |
| Jez mon wrote: | | donrhummy wrote: |
I never said they were all clean. But to call it the darkest period means it was the time of greatest turmoil, scandal, loss of money, etc. And it was the exact opposite. You could call it the greatest Oz period (as in Wizard of Oz, where everything was great on the surface, glittering like gold but underneath it was a farce) if you wanted, but not the darkest. (I'm not sure I totally agree with that assessment as cheating and performance enhancement goes back to the first TDF's, but I can see that being a more sensible statement) |
I agree to a certain to extent. But for me, the period saw a building up of problems which became clear in the following years. Lance epitomises an era where poeple were visiting a spanish blood clinic. Lance epitomises an era where cycling became one race a year. Lance epitomises an era where the tests didn't work and where many lost all faith in their heroes. It was a dark period for cycling. Sure when Lance retired sponsors went away, drug scandals boiled over and cycling went through a very rough patch, but that was needed so that cycling could gain a new sheen. |
Whoah, you have it wrong. Lance dominated an era where people visited blood clinics in Spain, not epitomizes. He's never been shown to have visited a blood bank. So how can you say he epitomizes it? Epitomize means "to serve as the typical or ideal example of" something. Since Lance has never even been suspected of using a blood bank like Puerto, he's not an example of that. BIG difference.
|
|
|
Lucyliu
Joined: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 12
Location: North Yorkshire
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:33 pm |
So Realgains was right...he predicted all of this didnt he !! ??
Mr Armstrong just couldnt resist it !!
C:\Documents and Settings\woodwl01\Desktop\Assessing Lance's natural talent and does he have The Bug - RoadBikeReview Forums.htm
|
|
|
Gazzetta67
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 85
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:40 pm |
Good to see a few more cynics like myself on here...God is their no end to this guys arrogance and massive ego i did say EGO Not EP$ . all we will get now is the Lance de France show.. the tour is bigger than one rider. the guy i feel sorry for is the poor bugger in the Astana team who will have to make way for "God" himself.....no what am i saying the self control freak will pick his own riders. how good would it be to see him fall flat on his face and shut up all the Crawly - Bum - Lick fans of his on here....we had one of the best tours in years just there...we dont want to go back too the 2-Speeds tour de france. just had a horrible thought its going to be Hellish listening to PHIL LIGGETT and TEAM SHERWIN next year....they 2 will be Creaming themselves behind the bike sheds with shouts of TEAM LANCE. GO LANCE. HAVE MY BABIES LANCE oh and the saucy BIG George Hincapie line. AAAARGHHHH this is a bad dream
|
|
|
donrhummy
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1239
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:46 pm |
VERY interesting article in Vanity Fair. Some excerpts...
| Quote: | | Armstrong recognizes that the European press may very well be laying in wait for him, hoping he’ll fail. “I didn’t go out of my way to make friends with the French media,” he says. “In fact, I was combative. I was unavailable, arrogant, and I was that way to a lot of them. Anybody who wrote a negative article: Done. Never speak to them again. I won’t do that this time. I mean, these daily or weekly [phone conferences]? Everyone’s invited. From the bitterest of rivals I’ve ever had in the pressroom: Get on call. If you’ve got a question, ask it.… They’ll realize that I’m not messing around.” The difference this time, he says, is that he won’t be flaunting his Americanism in their faces. “The constituency that I represent,” he says, “is now cancer survivors.” |
WOW. Now if he actually follows through on that, what a different Lance it'll be. And what a huge admission this is from him. I've never seen him admit that he was part of the problem. He even calls himself arrogant and combative. I'm impressed.
| Quote: | | Another obstacle Armstrong faces is having his Tour attempt written off as another Brett Favre–ean resurrection. Second—or third or fourth—acts aren’t all that interesting anymore in America. But he insists this is different, since he will get no salary for the 2009 season (although his speaking fees and endorsement deals clearly won’t suffer). “Everybody in cycling has a team and takes a team salary,” he says. “I am essentially racing for free. No salary. No bonus. Nothing on the line.… This one’s on the house. And you know what? At the end of the day, I don’t need money.… Not only will I be fine, my kids will be fine, my grandkids will be fine.” |
Yes, he will make money from endorsements but to anyone saying he's doing this to pay bills, you're completely wrong. He could have taken a salary or purely bonus structure and in most people's minds that wouldn't have changed this, so it's huge that he's doing that. (Of course, I think he should have told his team to take the salary they'd have paid him and donated it to cancer research)
| Quote: | | High on top of his bookshelves, in special alcoves, are his seven blue Tour trophies. Desperately, he wants an eighth. And if for some strange reason the A.S.O. doesn’t “invite” Armstrong and his team to the Tour de France, he plans on pleading his case directly to the current French president, Nicolas Sarkozy. “I’ve already put a call in to him,” Armstrong says. “Look it up. He’s said strong (positive) things about me in the past.” |
ASO better be careful, Lance has already gone to Daddy.
| Quote: | “I fear failure,” Armstrong admits, during a quiet moment. “I have a huge phobia around failure....And for me, I think a lot of that stems from just the illness and the diagnosis and the process there. Because failure there is death. Loss there is death. And victory is living. Which people just assume they’re going to do. I mean, most people—cancer survivors—don’t always assume that. But I was scared. You know, from that point on, I associated loss with death. And so I didn’t. It was burned in my mind forever.
“I don’t like to lose in anything. Anything.” |
This is why I'd never bet against the man. Even if he was 45, I'd never bet against him losing. He's willing to give more of himself to win than any of his opponents.
As Bruce Lee said:
| Quote: | | The worst opponent you can come across is one whose aim has become an obsession. For instance, if a man has decided that he is going to bite off your nose no matter what happens to him in the process, the chances are he will succeed in doing it. |
|
|
|
Fastlad
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 742
Location: United Kingdom
|
Posted Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:52 pm |
WORLD CHAMP AT 21, 7 TIMES TDF WINNER, TOTALLY GIFTED AND 100% COMMITTED AND STILL HUNGRY TO WIN THE BIGGEST BIKE RACE IN THE WORLD!!!! VIVE LE TOUR.....FOREVER. WAY TO GO LANCE, YOU CAN DO IT 
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Search
