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Monty Dog
Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 12212
Location: Fleet, UK
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 Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:51 pm |
For managing to turn the last 2 days into the high mountains into a boring procession - why today's stage could have finished at Hautacam or Luz Ardiden is beyond me - perhaps they're more interested in revenue from hosting a finish rather than a genuine interest in making it a race. At least the Giro organisers know how to make a GT a spectacle.
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side.. |
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SpaceJunk
Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 1058
Location: Australia
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 1:54 pm |
I didn't mind yesterday's stage, especially if today's stage had a summit finish.
But yeah, the Tour may end up having an exciting climax, but Pyrenees will be remembered for two things:
1. Feillu's stage win
2. Nothing else
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kerryman
Joined: 24 Mar 2009
Posts: 30
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:01 pm |
agreed, the last 3 days have been so dull.
feilliu's win was nice but rest was ordinary
the giro was full of great attacking exciting riding
have to wait for almost 3 weeks of racing to see the main contenders battle it out?!
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Dave_1
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 8150
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:07 pm |
| Monty Dog wrote: | | For managing to turn the last 2 days into the high mountains into a boring procession - why today's stage could have finished at Hautacam or Luz Ardiden is beyond me - perhaps they're more interested in revenue from hosting a finish rather than a genuine interest in making it a race. At least the Giro organisers know how to make a GT a spectacle. |
Pruedhomme and co at ASO definitely damaged the TDF today with this ridiculous stage and now a week of boring racing...no way should the TDF pass the pyrenees without proper summit finishes. The TDF should as a rough rule start up north and take in both mountain ranges. Silly decision by ASO.
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GroupOfOne MkII
Joined: 13 Jul 2007
Posts: 1089
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:15 pm |
It actually says in the Tour guide that one of the reasons for today's finish was because of tonights big transfer to Limoges.
Thus they didn't want a summit finish, or a finish 'in' the main mountains, because of problems getting people back out and away from the stage finish, hence finishing out of the Pyrenees.
Also ASO didn't want the race to effectively be decided on the second weekend.
Still, I don't see why they couldn't have found a couple of small hills, even just 3rd or 4th cat on the run in, not so much to create time gaps, but to spice things up and give someone a chance of escaping from the bunch.
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Top_Bhoy
Joined: 12 Jun 2004
Posts: 1382
Location: Melbourne (in the land of Oz)
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:17 pm |
| GroupOfOne MkII wrote: | It actually says in the Tour guide that one of the reasons for today's finish was because of tonights big transfer to Limoges.
Thus they didn't want a summit finish, or a finish 'in' the main mountains, because of problems getting people back out and away from the stage finish, hence finishing out of the Pyrenees.
Also ASO didn't want the race to effectively be decided on the second weekend.
Still, I don't see why they couldn't have found a couple of small hills, even just 3rd or 4th cat on the run in, not so much to create time gaps, but to spice things up and give someone a chance of escaping from the bunch. |
No, they were quite content to have it decided by the end of stage 4.
Click here to view Top_Bhoys RC2: |
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donrhummy
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 1853
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:17 pm |
Agreed. I never understood why the TDF (the last 10 years) has so many stages where they take an historic mountain like the col du tourmalet and neutralize it by putting so much flat stage after it that no GC guy will waste his energy attacking. What a waste of a great mountain.
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Kléber
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 5912
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:23 pm |
Look at it the other way, if we had three summit finishes in a row it's likely Contador would have a three minute cushion and that's before the Alps and Ventoux. You'd all be complaining the race was decided, that it was over for Schleck, Armstrong, Evans etc.
At least this way it's open and we can look forward to the Alps. Remember too that you have to have stages for the attacking riders, the first week alone in the past was a procession of sprinters' stages.
Besides, the chase between Pellizotti-Fedrigo and the bunch is exciting. It won't change the race but it's still a hard race.
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emadden
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 635
Location: Zug, Switzerland
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:54 pm |
| Kléber wrote: | Look at it the other way, if we had three summit finishes in a row it's likely Contador would have a three minute cushion and that's before the Alps and Ventoux. You'd all be complaining the race was decided, that it was over for Schleck, Armstrong, Evans etc.
At least this way it's open and we can look forward to the Alps. Remember too that you have to have stages for the attacking riders, the first week alone in the past was a procession of sprinters' stages.
Besides, the chase between Pellizotti-Fedrigo and the bunch is exciting. It won't change the race but it's still a hard race. |
But also if we had three mountain stages the leaders would be fairly zonked tired... As has happened historically... another battle would happen in the Alps...
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Blazing Saddles
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 3349
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:24 pm |
It's like all things Tour. About the money.
La Mongie cough up twice in 3 editions to have a stage finish, Hautcam, last year.
Pau is always hungry for a stage finish and Tabres hate being the poor country cousin.
So, Tarbes get the nod, this time.
Neither town has a useful climb close enough to make things critical.
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mididoctors
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 2624
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:40 pm |
I am kinda liking how this is panning out
the damage done to major GC contendors in the first week ..the TTT and all that is a shame but actually forcing these guys to ride hard for no benefit on GC brutalizes the race somewhat.
its been active but tight (TTT accepted)
I think we could see some serious damage in the final week perhaps some remarkable collapses
Lance is certainly hoping certain riders fade
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squired
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 580
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:11 pm |
I remember my disappointment when the route was announced for this years edition. The stage Friday which had everyone saying ended on a climb that wasn't hard enough to cause a selection before it even happened and they were right. We then have a second mountain finish on a stage with no real difficulties before it and then Ventoux.
The problem is that they think doing this will make the race close and exciting. If you try to engineer something it often does the opposite. Some of the really hard Giros have been extremely exciting, with multiple mountain stages causing carnage due to different riders having bad days. Instead we have a situation where people 3 minutes down after a week of a 3 week race are apparently out of it.
People always bleat on about the riders making the race hard, but in the end the riders need the right course to do their jobs. The organisers must look at how the pros ride now and try to design courses that work with the current style of racing. For example, on a stage with two mountains, no-one riding for GC will try anything on the penultimate climb if there is 30km of valley before the start of the final climb. If you drop down and then straight back up they can.
Today I actually gave up watching before they even hit the top of the Tourmalet as I was just wasting my time. The sport needs people watching and if the stages are pointless they won't watch. I have a feeling I'll probably not bother with any of the stages next week either as they are unlikely to achieve anything. There are better things I can do with my time.
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micron
Joined: 13 Jun 2003
Posts: 1677
Location:
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:37 pm |
The problem with having 55kms of TTing in the first week is that it needs to be balanced by opportunities for the climbers to get some of that time back and those opportunities simply aren't there. It's really badly balanced as a course.
Cyclismag reports that the Pyrenees will be fantastic next year and be a real centrepiece of the race - about time, and sadly too late for this year where, frankly, they might as well not have been in the race at all. To face the prospect of a sprinter winning a stage including the mighty Tourmalet is all wrong.
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pinerellopaul
Joined: 12 Apr 2008
Posts: 46
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:51 pm |
my advise to anyone on this years race is to start watching 2 hours after the start of recording on your + box and then fast forward it over the boring bits which condenses it down to about 1 hour of viewing , the most exciting thing this year watching this way was Fabians descending skills
i would love to know what Ian thinks of the race so far as he thought the Giro was a bore fest
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iainf72
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 8861
Location: London
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:56 pm |
| pinerellopaul wrote: |
i would love to know what Ian thinks of the race so far as he thought the Giro was a bore fest |
I've not seen any of this weekend (from Friday) yet so I can't really comment. 
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FJS
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1368
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:22 pm |
It will always be a problem to make a well-balanced route with a Grand Depart in the South.
If they put in too many decisive mountain stages in the first week people the last two weeks of the Tour are boring because the GC is decided already (see the Giro).
If they put in mountain stages that keep the GC open, like now, people complain too.
Remember the Pyrenees in the Tour de France that started in San Sebastian?
I actually think they did a good job with the route, apart from the roads picked for the TTT. In a normal TdF after the first week all we would have had would be an endless succession of predictable sprinter's stages. What we've had now in the first week has been lots better. Now some sprinters stages and then a full week of climbing. Not bad I think.
Prepare for more routes like this in the coming years, as Barcelona enjoyed hosting the Tour so much they're planning to put in a bid for Grand Depart in a couple of years.
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AndyRubio
Joined: 27 Mar 2009
Posts: 450
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:58 pm |
Three French stage winners suggests that no-one's really trying. Feeling guilty for being mildly bored.
My hour on the plinth |
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FJS
Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 1368
Location: Sheffield
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:03 pm |
| AndyRubio wrote: | | Three French stage winners suggests that no-one's really trying. |
No. Just:
1. A single sprinter that is so dominant that other teams are not really willing to keep the pack togteher in flat stages anymore.
2. A couple of stages that favour break-aways of reasonable climbers without any GC chances.
3. Still too many teams with a GC leader who thinks he can win, so not many get an opportunity to go for breakaways yet.
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mididoctors
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Posts: 2624
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:09 pm |
| FJS wrote: | | AndyRubio wrote: | | Three French stage winners suggests that no-one's really trying. |
No. Just:
1. A single sprinter that is so dominant that other teams are not really willing to keep the pack togteher in flat stages anymore.
2. A couple of stages that favour break-aways of reasonable climbers without any GC chances.
3. Still too many teams with a GC leader who thinks he can win, so not many get an opportunity to go for breakaways yet. |
4. and the muntain stages reduce the opportunities for GC contenders to make decisive moves favoring breaks..
5.opens up green and polka dot jersey contests
I am not so against this route.. the TTT rules need adjusting
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emadden
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
Posts: 635
Location: Zug, Switzerland
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Posted Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:12 pm |
Im guilty of not having paid much attention to the route when it was announced... Its only after the fiasco that was the TdS that I realise how crap this years TdF route is... Ok the first week was fairly exciting, but lets face it, for the next week we are going to be bored sh8tless.. The GC is still pretty much the same as it was before we went to the "mountains", but a small change... No disrespect to Nocentini, he is a class guy, but he is going to be in yellow for another week!
For those that are saying that the tour would be over if the last three days had severe mountains - I beg to differ. There may have been gaps, but it would have been exciting to watch and we would have had those behind trying to build up strength for a round two in the Alps.
Verbier is going to be boring... a flat run in after Mosses (which is not a hard climb) and then the power boys can roll up the climb... I hate being so critical, but I just find the race is designed to come down to the Ventoux and I have a bad feeling that the stage will be flop.
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