Oversized v standard

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lancelogan
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Oversized v standard

Postby lancelogan » Mon May 14, 2012 19:50 pm

Can anyone tell me what the difference is between standard and oversized handlebar/stem combinations? Apart from the size of course. Is there any difference in the comfort and/or handling characteristics that oversized provide?
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P_Tucker
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby P_Tucker » Mon May 14, 2012 20:01 pm

Not that you could measure outside of a laboratory

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anto164
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby anto164 » Mon May 14, 2012 21:01 pm

But something that is noticed when cranking up a climb (think about how much your hoods are moving when you're sat down cranking hard).. Oversized bars tend to be slightly stiffer.

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MattC59
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby MattC59 » Mon May 14, 2012 21:02 pm

Care to elaborate P_Tucker ?
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved

Rule74Please
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby Rule74Please » Mon May 14, 2012 22:14 pm

1.25" or 31.8 mm came from ATB and it is easier (cheaper) to hold a manufacturing tolerance on a larger diameter. Only real reason for it. Made of a slightly lighter ATB bar but on the road made little difference.

Marketing boys will talk of stiffness etc (except Oval Products) but it really came down to cost. A bit like the original move to 1 1/8" headsets.

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EKIMIKE
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby EKIMIKE » Tue May 15, 2012 00:09 am

Wouldn't that only be true if the entire bar was 31.8mm? It's just the part where the stem clamps on that it is 31.8mm.

Anyway even if it was a matter of stiffness, i'd agree with P_Tucker - you're unlikely to notice unless you're in a lab looking at a computer screen.

I'd wager that any 'softness' you'd feel when 'cranking it' would be compression of the bar tape and/or hoods. 'Sensations' often belie the reality with bikes. Of course sensations are important - how the bike feels, but don't kid yourself that things are 'flexy' or moving and equate that to some 'engineering principle' exaggerated by the dudes in the marketing office.

Just stick with one size on all your bikes so that you can swap bits in and out easily. You have more choice with 31.8mm as it's generally favoured by manufacturers.

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Wheelspinner
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby Wheelspinner » Tue May 15, 2012 03:43 am

EKIMIKE wrote:Wouldn't that only be true if the entire bar was 31.8mm? It's just the part where the stem clamps on that it is 31.8mm. Er, no.

Anyway even if it was a matter of stiffness, i'd agree with P_Tucker - you're unlikely to notice unless you're in a lab looking at a computer screen. Then you'd both be wrong.

I'd wager that any 'softness' you'd feel when 'cranking it' would be compression of the bar tape and/or hoods. That could be an expensive bet to lose. You may indeed compress the tape, but it's not all you can feel. 'Sensations' often belie the reality with bikes. Of course sensations are important - how the bike feels, but don't kid yourself that things are 'flexy' or moving and equate that to some 'engineering principle' exaggerated by the dudes in the marketing office. Marketing usually come up with drivel to describe the products, but that has no relationship to whether something is actually mildly flexy, stiff as a really stiff thing, or all wet-noodly. EVERYTHING in movement has some flex, measurable, discernible or otherwise, because if it doesn't flex, it will likely break instead.

Just stick with one size on all your bikes so that you can swap bits in and out easily. You have more choice with 31.8mm as it's generally favoured by manufacturers. This is the most sensible part of your post.


Eh?

P_Tucker
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby P_Tucker » Tue May 15, 2012 06:13 am

MattC59 wrote:Care to elaborate P_Tucker ?


No

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MattC59
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby MattC59 » Tue May 15, 2012 06:51 am

P_Tucker wrote:
MattC59 wrote:Care to elaborate P_Tucker ?


No


As expected; so we can only assume that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that this is nothing more than your opinion. Again.
Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved

cougie
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby cougie » Tue May 15, 2012 07:31 am

I can't tell any difference.

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EKIMIKE
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby EKIMIKE » Tue May 15, 2012 09:02 am

Wheelspinner wrote:
EKIMIKE wrote:Wouldn't that only be true if the entire bar was 31.8mm? It's just the part where the stem clamps on that it is 31.8mm. Er, no.

Anyway even if it was a matter of stiffness, i'd agree with P_Tucker - you're unlikely to notice unless you're in a lab looking at a computer screen. Then you'd both be wrong.

I'd wager that any 'softness' you'd feel when 'cranking it' would be compression of the bar tape and/or hoods. That could be an expensive bet to lose. You may indeed compress the tape, but it's not all you can feel. 'Sensations' often belie the reality with bikes. Of course sensations are important - how the bike feels, but don't kid yourself that things are 'flexy' or moving and equate that to some 'engineering principle' exaggerated by the dudes in the marketing office. Marketing usually come up with drivel to describe the products, but that has no relationship to whether something is actually mildly flexy, stiff as a really stiff thing, or all wet-noodly. EVERYTHING in movement has some flex, measurable, discernible or otherwise, because if it doesn't flex, it will likely break instead.

Just stick with one size on all your bikes so that you can swap bits in and out easily. You have more choice with 31.8mm as it's generally favoured by manufacturers. This is the most sensible part of your post.


Eh?


Thank you for the critique. Interesting to know your opinion.

I just want to clear up the first point though. You say 'Er, no.' but you'll see that all over-size handlebars (with the exception of those 'wing' type things usually made out of carbon) taper down from the clamping section to a lesser diameter. So if the clamping section is 31.8mm then you're wrong. But if the tapered down part (the majority of the bar) is 31.8mm diameter, what is the clamping sections diameter?

Image

So are all non-oversized handle bars 'wet-noodly'? Or does it ultimately come down to what material they're made out of/the treatments given to that material? :wink:

Sure the additional diameter at the clamping area will likely make the bars stiffer, i've never said any different, but will we notice a difference? Maybe in the sensations. Not in real world, measurable performance gains. You won't win a sprint because of your handlebars. You might feel more solid and confident because of them though (remember, i said sensations are important).

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EKIMIKE
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby EKIMIKE » Tue May 15, 2012 09:19 am

MattC59 wrote:
P_Tucker wrote:
MattC59 wrote:Care to elaborate P_Tucker ?


No


As expected; so we can only assume that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that this is nothing more than your opinion. Again.


Care to provide anything to the contrary?

I do believe that unless you have any tangible, real world data you are also implicitly expressing your opinion, that is counter to his opinion.

F**k me, we're all expressing nothing but mere opinion. :lol:

Ultimately, the manufacturers overwhelmingly produce 31.8mm bars so you may as well go for them for reasons of more choice being available... is there really anything else we need to know?

Anyone would have thought that Eddy Merckx used to ride around with the constant thought in his head: Christ, these handlebars are so sh!t. Maybe... Maybe...

cougie
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby cougie » Tue May 15, 2012 12:08 pm

If you choose standard bars - you can still buy tri bars for them at much cheaper prices than their more modern OS counterparts - should that be of interest for you. (or you could when I bought some last year - 50% off !)

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prawny
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby prawny » Tue May 15, 2012 15:05 pm

Standar clamp bars are more aero innit ;)
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P_Tucker
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Re: Oversized v standard

Postby P_Tucker » Tue May 15, 2012 19:14 pm

MattC59 wrote:
P_Tucker wrote:
MattC59 wrote:Care to elaborate P_Tucker ?


No


As expected; so we can only assume that you have no idea what you're talking about, and that this is nothing more than your opinion. Again.


:lol: Well, that's an astonishly evidence-filled rebuttal. Anyway, whilst there's no doubt that all else being equal a larger diameter tube is stiffer, I defy anyone to tell the difference in use. Certainly, this bloke doesn't see the benefits:

Image

And he'll have been putting twice the force of any of us through his bars.


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