wheels

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Headhuunter
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wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sat Nov 03, 2012 14:56 pm

I think I need some new wheels for my caad8, the stock wheels are rubbish. I mentioned before that my local bike guy said that black spokes break a lot, well he seems to be right...another bloody spoke has gone within about 100 miles.... Had anyone seen any decent wheel bargains out there recently? I'm thinking something not too expensive like rs10, rs20, fulcrum or open pro or something....anyone seen anything good?
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supersonic
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Re: wheels

Postby supersonic » Sat Nov 03, 2012 15:50 pm

The colour of the spoke is just a coincidence, the problem here looks like a poor build of the wheels. If you are tough on wheels, these are worth a look:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPP ... c_wheelset

With 32 butted spokes they should last well. The build quality tends to be good too from these.


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supersonic
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Re: wheels

Postby supersonic » Sat Nov 03, 2012 15:52 pm

spasypaddy wrote:my stock answer when anyone asks me this
http://www.merlincycles.com/bike-shop/w ... o-rim.html


I very nearly recommended them too! Great wheels, pity they are out of stock of the rear.

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First Aspect
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Re: wheels

Postby First Aspect » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:05 pm

For the around the same price you can get some Shimano ultegra wheels. Essentially the same hub internals.

You wouldn't get the same ease of replacement of parts (hopefully you wouldn't need that) but they are a bit lighter and don't need rim tape. I have the 29er version of these and I'm quite impressed.

Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:08 pm

Thanks. I don't think I'm particularly hard on wheels but these wheels and another set of cheap wheels which also had black spokes which I had on another bike have been awful... I've got rs80 on my good bike, have had pro lite Como and shimano whr550 among others and they've all been fine...
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First Aspect
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Re: wheels

Postby First Aspect » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:12 pm

Headhuunter wrote:Thanks. I don't think I'm particularly hard on wheels but these wheels and another set of cheap wheels which also had black spokes which I had on another bike have been awful... I've got rs80 on my good bike, have had pro lite Como and shimano whr550 among others and they've all been fine...
The only spokes I've ever broken have been silver and I had a hell of a time with multiple issues with another set of silver wheels. I have owned two sets of all black wheels and the only problem I ever had was the spoke pulling through the eyelet because the wheel builder hadn't used washers in order to save weight.

What does this mean?

Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:12 pm

supersonic wrote:The colour of the spoke is just a coincidence, the problem here looks like a poor build of the wheels. If you are tough on wheels, these are worth a look:

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/WPP ... c_wheelset

With 32 butted spokes they should last well. The build quality tends to be good too from these.

Do planet s still do model b? I can't find them in their site... Don't really want heavy, semi industrial wheels...
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Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:14 pm

First Aspect wrote:
Headhuunter wrote:Thanks. I don't think I'm particularly hard on wheels but these wheels and another set of cheap wheels which also had black spokes which I had on another bike have been awful... I've got rs80 on my good bike, have had pro lite Como and shimano whr550 among others and they've all been fine...
The only spokes I've ever broken have been silver and I had a hell of a time with multiple issues with another set of silver wheels. I have owned two sets of all black wheels and the only problem I ever had was the spoke pulling through the eyelet because the wheel builder hadn't used washers in order to save weight.

What does this mean?

I dunno but there is a lot of chat out there that the process used to blacken some spokes weakens them....
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First Aspect
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Re: wheels

Postby First Aspect » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:18 pm

Headhuunter wrote:I dunno but there is a lot of chat out there that the process used to blacken some spokes weakens them....
There really isn't.

And what there is reminds me of the chat about carbon fibre. A bit wee and a bit woo.

Why aren't other blackedned aluminium parts, like fork steerers, derailleurs, stems, bars and seatposts also suspect? Deep down you must know that its bollicks, and merely a "belief", surely? Edit: Come to think of it, aren't the rims of all of the wheels you are looking at also black? Dude, be careful.

Edit again - jeesus my spelling is bad.

Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:32 pm

First Aspect wrote:
Headhuunter wrote:I dunno but there is a lot of chat out there that the process used to blacken some spokes weakens them....
There really isn't.

And what there is reminds me of the chat about carbon fibre. A bit wee and a bit woo.

Why aren't other blackedned aluminium parts, like fork steerers, derailleurs, stems, bars and seatposts also suspect? Deep down you must know that its bollicks, and merely a "belief", surely? Edit: Come to think of it, aren't the rims of all of the wheels you are looking at also black? Dude, be careful.

Edit again - jeesus my spelling is bad.

Who knows... I have no idea but it sounds like there is/was some part of the process which weakened spokes. I have no idea whether the same process was applies to other black components, I think they're mainly just painted so,certainly not the same thing, how are you so sure it's all hoo ha?

Anyway back to wheels.... Anyone else seem anything good?
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supersonic
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Re: wheels

Postby supersonic » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:38 pm

Have a look on CRCs wheel builder - Shimano hubs, Mavic rims, double butted spokes - hard to go wrong. Just pick to suit the budget.

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First Aspect
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Re: wheels

Postby First Aspect » Sat Nov 03, 2012 16:52 pm

I'm just being obtuse. But I've been cycling for a long time and never heard of this before your bike mechanic said so. This site has a proliferation of chemists, physicists and other scientists who regard it as another example of superstitious technobunkum, of which there is a rich history in cycling. So I can't be sure any more than I can be "sure" of anything, but I would be very suprised indeed if the thing about black spokes was anything more than acecdotal momentum.

i.e. You have no basis for this belief other than something your mechanic guy told you, and that you happen to have broken a black spoke. A second broken spoke on a wheel is a result of the first, but because you want to believe that black spokes are bad, you regard it as a separate incident. You, the bike mechanic, the guy who told him, selectively recall or notice breakage of black spokes to add to your repository of information in order to confirm the belief you already have. At the same time you ignore naysayers like me, who tell you about silver spoke breakages, or Supersonic who muses on such things during the copious amount of free time a PhD student has and cannot think of any good reason why blackening of a spoke would turn it into a dairy product.

I've had a dig on the interweb and the only "explanation" I've found is that the treatments to blacken steel might involve elevated temperature and "corrosive substances". In this case, every weld is a bit of a problem isn't it? And annealing must be bad. Clearly these last two statements are not true, so why would one believe the first?

See what I'm getting at?

What is your budget for wheels?

SteppenHerring
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Re: wheels

Postby SteppenHerring » Sat Nov 03, 2012 17:46 pm

I'm happy with my Ksyrium SLs (black spokes) on the weekend bike. Commuter bike has good old fashioned 36 spoke jobs and weighs slightly less than my car. And I am a fat git.
mroli wrote:(Michel) Roux has the scary eyes of an inner Begbie...

spasypaddy
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Re: wheels

Postby spasypaddy » Sat Nov 03, 2012 19:46 pm

cant recommend PX wheels, the hubs are awful. and getting a replacement freehub from them was near to impossible.

Id recommend Fulcrum Racing 3s if youre budget can stretch but then for a commuter bike i would still go for the ones on my first link if you can find a rear wheel to match. Every part is replaceable/rebuildable by any bike shop rather than factory wheels which tend to use prepriatory spokes/hubs

cyclingprop
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Re: wheels

Postby cyclingprop » Sun Nov 04, 2012 01:41 am

Only ever had black spokes. Not snapped one yet (tough wood). Maybe you're just too fat for them?
What do you mean you think 64cm is a big frame?

Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sun Nov 04, 2012 07:39 am

cyclingprop wrote:Only ever had black spokes. Not snapped one yet (tough wood). Maybe you're just too fat for them?

Too fat? If I lose much more weight I'll just be bone!
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Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sun Nov 04, 2012 07:43 am

First Aspect wrote:I'm just being obtuse. But I've been cycling for a long time and never heard of this before your bike mechanic said so. This site has a proliferation of chemists, physicists and other scientists who regard it as another example of superstitious technobunkum, of which there is a rich history in cycling. So I can't be sure any more than I can be "sure" of anything, but I would be very suprised indeed if the thing about black spokes was anything more than acecdotal momentum.

i.e. You have no basis for this belief other than something your mechanic guy told you, and that you happen to have broken a black spoke. A second broken spoke on a wheel is a result of the first, but because you want to believe that black spokes are bad, you regard it as a separate incident. You, the bike mechanic, the guy who told him, selectively recall or notice breakage of black spokes to add to your repository of information in order to confirm the belief you already have. At the same time you ignore naysayers like me, who tell you about silver spoke breakages, or Supersonic who muses on such things during the copious amount of free time a PhD student has and cannot think of any good reason why blackening of a spoke would turn it into a dairy product.

I've had a dig on the interweb and the only "explanation" I've found is that the treatments to blacken steel might involve elevated temperature and "corrosive substances". In this case, every weld is a bit of a problem isn't it? And annealing must be bad. Clearly these last two statements are not true, so why would one believe the first?

See what I'm getting at?

What is your budget for wheels?

I don't necessarily believe that there it's an innate problem with black spokes, you just seemed to be of the view that it couldn't possibly be true without even having looked into it...

Budget for wheels may be around 200, 250 at a stretch....
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: wheels

Postby UndercoverElephant » Sun Nov 04, 2012 07:52 am

Spa cycles will do you hand-built wheels with top-class spokes and Ultegra hubs for £247. Those would be very nice wheels.

http://spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s178p1954

Headhuunter
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Re: wheels

Postby Headhuunter » Sun Nov 04, 2012 08:08 am

Thanks they look good... What does everyone think of shimano rs20? I've got rs80 on my good bike and the rs20 takes the same (ish) spokes which can be hard to find... You can get a pair of rs20 for around 100 quid!
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