2 x 20 and over under intensities

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Hurricane151
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2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Hurricane151 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 18:51 pm

A couple of sessions I want to use now that I have power is the 2 (or 3) x 20min sessions and over under.

My query is around the intensity levels of each session. I do all my rest elements at zone 2 but i would intend to do the sessions as follows

2 x 20
20min warm up Zone 2
2 x 20mins @ low zone 4 (approximately 95% FTP) with 10min recovery between intervals (Z2)
20min cool down Zone 2

Over Under
20min warm up zone 2
1min 110% FTP - 1min 90% FTP X 5
10min recovery Z2
Repeat above for 5-10sets
20min cool down Z2

Does the abpve sound about right?

The main aim is to try and improve FTP.

I also try and do 60min Zone 3 as a session too but the intensity for that is pretty obvious.

cheers

Tom Dean
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Tom Dean » Thu Nov 22, 2012 19:33 pm

Not sure you could do 10 sets!

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Herbsman
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Herbsman » Thu Nov 22, 2012 20:23 pm

Why train to gradually improve your FTP by small amounts when you could just reduce it by 50% and then ride at double your new FTP for an hour?
CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!

Hurricane151
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Hurricane151 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 05:49 am

Tom Dean wrote:Not sure you could do 10 sets!


This is true but guess Start at 4 and build on that each session forv progressive improvement

Hurricane151
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Hurricane151 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 05:51 am

Herbsman wrote:Why train to gradually improve your FTP by small amounts when you could just reduce it by 50% and then ride at double your new FTP for an hour?


Thanks, inspired advice and truly helpful!

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springtide9
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby springtide9 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 08:07 am

1min 110% FTP - 1min 90% FTP X 5

This is 10 mins of training followed by 10 mins rest = 20 mins per set; so 10 sets would be around 3 hrs? I do hope you aren't planning on doing this on a turbo :roll:
Simon

mamba80
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby mamba80 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 08:13 am

I think he means 1min over, 1 min under.

How do you know your ftp? you say you r using pwr but then quote hr zones instead of levels.

Personally, i prefer a longer interval than 2 x 20 or @ a higher level - but until i re test, i dont know if what i ve been doing has worked :)

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JGSI
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby JGSI » Fri Nov 23, 2012 08:35 am

? you have zones or levels when using power, or am I mistaken and need to sort out my Golden Cheetah

Tom Dean
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Tom Dean » Fri Nov 23, 2012 08:46 am

2x20 at 95% is pretty standard. There is no right or wrong way to do an individual session though, it all depends how it fits in to your overall program.

Hurricane151
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Hurricane151 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 08:59 am

mamba80 wrote:I think he means 1min over, 1 min under.

How do you know your ftp? you say you r using pwr but then quote hr zones instead of levels.

Personally, i prefer a longer interval than 2 x 20 or @ a higher level - but until i re test, i dont know if what i ve been doing has worked :)


I tested my ftp and set my power zones based on that. I might have confused the terminology with levels and zones but the zones I use in the op are power based on my tested ftp.
ope that makes sense

Hurricane151
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Hurricane151 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 09:03 am

springtide9 wrote:1min 110% FTP - 1min 90% FTP X 5

This is 10 mins of training followed by 10 mins rest = 20 mins per set; so 10 sets would be around 3 hrs? I do hope you aren't planning on doing this on a turbo :roll:


You're right that does seem excessive but I guess that's my question. Should it be 5 reps? Should it be 10min rest? I think sets might be a Max of 5 looking at it but it's the working intensities I want to get right.

Tom Dean
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Tom Dean » Fri Nov 23, 2012 09:40 am

It's in the area of FTP so the intensity is 'right' in that sense, but the right intensity always depends on the duration of the effort. There are a million way to do over/unders, give it a go and see how you get on.

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springtide9
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby springtide9 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 09:53 am

Hurricane151 wrote:
springtide9 wrote:1min 110% FTP - 1min 90% FTP X 5

This is 10 mins of training followed by 10 mins rest = 20 mins per set; so 10 sets would be around 3 hrs? I do hope you aren't planning on doing this on a turbo :roll:


You're right that does seem excessive but I guess that's my question. Should it be 5 reps? Should it be 10min rest? I think sets might be a Max of 5 looking at it but it's the working intensities I want to get right.


I think for a pretty tough turbo session, you'd be aiming at the ~1-1.5 hr mark for the total session. So with the 2x20, you have 10 min warmup, 20 min interval, 10 min rest, 20 min interval, 10 min cool down (1hr, 10 min)

I would guess you'd need to give it a go to see how tough it is, but maybe something like:

---------------------
10 min warm

[ 1min 110% FTP, 1min 90% FTP ] X 5
5 min recovery Z2
Repeat above for 4

10 min cool down
---------------------
Total 75 mins
---------------------

Personally I couldn't spend 20 mins cooling down on a turbo. Also with the warm up, as you are only pushing roughly FTP values for the intervals, I would cut the warm up to cut down the time on the turbo.
If you find it easy, then maybe make set 2, 3 & 4 tougher.

Just remember that this isn't a strict mathematical model you are trying to archive, it's just about structured interval training.
Simon

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Herbsman
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby Herbsman » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:46 am

Hurricane151 wrote:
Herbsman wrote:Why train to gradually improve your FTP by small amounts when you could just reduce it by 50% and then ride at double your new FTP for an hour?


Thanks, inspired advice and truly helpful!

No problem, it's the easiest way to double your FTP!
CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!

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wardieboy
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Re: 2 x 20 and over under intensities

Postby wardieboy » Fri Nov 23, 2012 19:58 pm

Herbsman wrote:
Hurricane151 wrote:
Herbsman wrote:Why train to gradually improve your FTP by small amounts when you could just reduce it by 50% and then ride at double your new FTP for an hour?


Thanks, inspired advice and truly helpful!

No problem, it's the easiest way to double your FTP!


Similarly you can easily double your speed by fitting two magnets to your rear wheel.
peddlingmadness wrote:Slightly off topic but, whilst waiting behind a horse box today the Horse Farted with a little follow through, missed my mouth thankfully, but my glasses were pebble dashed..


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