Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

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dee4life2005
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Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 16:11 pm

A few weeks ago I started to have issues with the rear wheel on my road bike. I run an full 10-speed ultegra groupset and a 105 cassette (that's what the bike came with). The rear wheel developed a little side-to-side play and the rear gears started to refuse to shift correctly.

I opened up the rear hub (shimano 105) today and on the freehub side the bearings were contaminated and the grease was no longer clean but a muddy brown colour and a little gritty. I cleaned everything out, re-greased the bearings and bearing race (which was slightly scored) and re-adjusted. The hub now runs smoothly and there is no longer the side-to-side play in the wheel (or perhaps very slightly). Is servicing the hubs in this way something that should be done periodically ? If so, how often. I do tend to ride in the rain a fair bit as this bike is used for commuting a couple of times a week on average. I though the bearings on these hubs were "sealed" so how does this "muck" get in there ?

The second issue is with the gear changing. The rear gears used to shift beautifully, sometimes so smoothly you'd hardly notice that it had changed. Lately however it's been refusing to shift up / down quite a bit. I thought it was just the cable tension needed adjusting so I tweaked the barrel adjusters. This helped in that it would allow up shifting, but then it would refuse to shift down on each click on the shifter - and vice-versa. I've cleaned the derailleur release spring, checked the cables for fraying and dirt but everything looks fine. This bike has only done a little over 2000 miles since new - any suggestions on where this problem may lie. I can live with it for most of my rides, but when I get to the hilly stuff it makes things a bit risky especially for out of the saddle climbing as the gears could refuse to shift when I really need them, or eventually change when I dont.

nb. with the bike on the workstand, when the gears aren't shifting properly if I wiggle the rear derailleur it will actually allow the shift to happen. It seems like something is sticking / snagging but I can't see where.

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Ouija
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby Ouija » Mon Dec 31, 2012 16:58 pm

The second problem just sounds like regular cable binding. Might want to read this thread.

dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 18:02 pm

thanks for the link to that thread. Sounds exactly the same symptoms i.e. having to double click and then it'll jump two cogs. I did take the rear loop that feeds into the derailleur off (it's a fairly big loop) and there didn't seem to be any binding issues here. I did lightly regrease that section just to be sure though - I also did the section that feeds through the downtube (it's internal cable routing). With the cable un-clamped I can freely pull the cable back and forth through both these sections.

I never thought to check the bit inside the shifter, will give that a try tomorrow.

I'm new to cycling in general and haven't had to replace any cables yet, is it an easy enough job to do on an ultegra shifter ? Would there be any complications, or extras needed, the fact it's internal cable routing ? (i.e. there is a plastic tube - a bit like a straw - that runs through the downtube that the cable runs through, I take it i'd have to replace this as well ?

Thanks.

TrekVet
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby TrekVet » Mon Dec 31, 2012 19:45 pm

Bearing trouble sounds like some the muck off the front wheel, that gets thrown back, has found it's way in. All you can do to minimise it is to fit a front mudflap like we used to in the '60s, fit a front tyre with no tread as the tread picks up more muck, keep the free play in the bearings to a minimum so the seals are not pushed open to let the muck in, and ride only on dry roads. Lastly buy a back wheel that has more seals in the hub. Have a look at http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/add-on-mud-flap.86164/
The Wife complained for months about the empty pot of bike oil on the hall stand; so I replaced it with a full one.

dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Mon Dec 31, 2012 21:12 pm

I've got crudracer mk2 mudguards fitted, with the tail extensions fitted on both front / back. Not much in the way of spray, but I have noticed that because the clearance is pretty tight that if I ride on a muddy road that alot of crap gets dumped on the break calipers (i've had to empty a bidon to clear it sometimes, think 1inch deep mud ontop of the break shoes!). Perhaps this muck is dropping down onto the cogs and working it's way in that way.

As I know I have a problem with the bearings I`ll be keeping a close eye on it, so that it never gets that bad again.

dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:50 am

Think I've finally got the gears working again as smooth as they should be.

I think something was up with the derailleur in relation to the B-screw. I had a slightly bent derailleur hanger at the start of december and I replaced it (with the correct one), but I think I may have re-installed the derailleur slightly incorrectly as the B-screw was having no effect when I tried it the other day. Last night, I removed the derialleur again and re-fitted it and it seems to be shifting / indexing correctly now - albeit only when I lift the rear wheel and spin the pedals, still have to take it for a shakedown on the road to find out for sure.

So that I don't do it again in future, what could cause the B-screw to be ineffective - given that it appeared to be seated correctly against the notice on the hanger etc. Also, if something was up with this, could it indeed cause the shifting problems I was experiencing or is it more likely it's just a conicidence that it's working now.??

Does the B-screw load the springs in some way ?

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smidsy
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby smidsy » Tue Jan 08, 2013 13:00 pm

Yes b screw moves top jockey wheel in relation to cassette by acting on the spring
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dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 14:34 pm

thanks, that's what I thought.
I think what I'd done was when I refitted the derailleur after replacing the hanger I'd got the b-screw pinched on the side of the hanger rather than it being set into the notch - I think this explains the springing noise when I removed the B-screw, that was it seating itself in that notch.

Pretty sure it's working now though, so I`m happy.

Have got the park tools, and sheldon brown derailleur adjustment pages bookmarked for future reference.

dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 14:47 pm

It was working, but then it wasn't shortly after. The B-screw did help a little though.
I snipped off the crimped cable cap and pulled the cable out to have a look ... one of the strands of wire had split and I assume that it has been get snagged up when being pulled through the cable outer.

I installed a new Gore Ride-on Low Friction cable and outer and it's 100% sorted now ... gear changes are soooo smooth again, like new.
Last edited by dee4life2005 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 19:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ouija
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby Ouija » Wed Jan 09, 2013 18:01 pm

Told you it was cable binding (smug). :mrgreen:

dee4life2005
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby dee4life2005 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 19:31 pm

@ Ouija, yep you did, thanks. I should have checked the cable a little closer the first time, something I couldn't do as I didn't fully remove it from the cable outer. It felt like it was moving freely, but that's probably because I'd moved the split in the cable outside of the cable outer ... doh!

I`ll certainly be checking it properly the next time :wink: . The difference in feel between a new cable and one that is binding is HUGE.

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Ouija
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Re: Rear Wheel / Gear Issues

Postby Ouija » Wed Jan 09, 2013 21:37 pm

Yeah. The lower friction should also make it feel like the gear levers seem lighter to press. In fact, one of the signs that your cables are binding somewhere is stiffer to operate levers, but the increase happens so slowly, over such a long time that people adjust to the extra stiffness and therefore don't recognize the symptoms. And it's always in that damn loop of cable at the back of the derailleur too. Since i switched out to using avid rollermajigs for a direct pull cable i haven't had to replace my gear cables in years (still feather light and responsive). Brake cables are another matter (haven't got on the hydraulics bandwagon yet).


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