HR Zones analysis

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
stevez
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HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Tue Jan 01, 2013 18:21 pm

Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?

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amaferanga
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby amaferanga » Tue Jan 01, 2013 18:35 pm

Have you set up your zones in Connect? If not then click on your name in the top right corner --> Settings --> Training Zones.
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stevez
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Tue Jan 01, 2013 18:49 pm

Yep zones are all set up correctly in Connect, just can't find any HR analysis in Connect at all???

Dave_P1
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Dave_P1 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 19:48 pm

I don't think Garmin Connect tells you the amount of time you've spent in each zone

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:46 am

stevez wrote:Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?


You don't have problems like this if you train with feel.

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Alex_Simmons/RST
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Alex_Simmons/RST » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:56 am

Trev The Rev wrote:
stevez wrote:Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?


You don't have problems like this if you train with feel.

Newer riders often need help to learn to know the sensations of riding at appropriate intensities, and using guides such as HR or power can be very helpful to help them calibrate that.

You have had the benefit of using such tools for a long time and probably have well tuned your calibration of PE.

stevez
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:04 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
stevez wrote:Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?


You don't have problems like this if you train with feel.


It's also a wel known fact that your brain will tell your body to stop before you have reached the physical limit of your bodies capability (ask any elite cyclist or rower!!) So as much as using feel is useful, the physiological facts maybe that your cheating yourself!

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:18 pm

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
stevez wrote:Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?


You don't have problems like this if you train with feel.

Newer riders often need help to learn to know the sensations of riding at appropriate intensities, and using guides such as HR or power can be very helpful to help them calibrate that.

You have had the benefit of using such tools for a long time and probably have well tuned your calibration of PE.


I see your point, however unless you did no sport as a child, most people should be able to judge effort well, what people learn when they use gadgets is to calibrate the effort they feel into a heart rate or power number. We don't feel heart rate or power but we can learn to convert our 'feel' into a number, be that number heart rate, power or even a PE number.

I fear some people may never learn how to feel properly if they start out using numbers. We already have a race of people who can't do the slightest calculation in their head, need an app to tell them when to drink or take on carbohydrate, need a GPS device to get them home, now we are encouraging cyclists to become reliant on heart rate and watts. Might as well have a chip put in our head at birth.

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:32 pm

stevez wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
stevez wrote:Have decided to use HR Zone as a basis for my training in 2013. Having set up all my zones on my Garmin Edge 500, I now can't find any data in Garmin Connect bar basic HR data. I'm especially interested in seeing how long I spent in each zone.

Anyone know if this can be done on Garmin Connect?


You don't have problems like this if you train with feel.


It's also a wel known fact that your brain will tell your body to stop before you have reached the physical limit of your bodies capability (ask any elite cyclist or rower!!) So as much as using feel is useful, the physiological facts maybe that your cheating yourself!


You need to speak to some elite athletes that have won races. Do you think Sir Steve Redgrave was looking at power data when he won those Gold Medals? Did you see Mo Farrah looking at his heart rate when he won the 5,000 & 10,000 meters? Winners don't race by numbers.

stevez
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:33 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
I fear some people may never learn how to feel properly if they start out using numbers. We already have a race of people who can't do the slightest calculation in their head, need an app to tell them when to drink or take on carbohydrate, need a GPS device to get them home, now we are encouraging cyclists to become reliant on heart rate and watts. Might as well have a chip put in our head at birth.


It's called evolution, and it's exactly this approach that has made British Cycling and Team Sky the envy of the rest of the World. Becoming better at cycling isn't a dark art, it's science, and it's governed by numbers!

stevez
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:44 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:
You need to speak to some elite athletes that have won races. Do you think Sir Steve Redgrave was looking at power data when he won those Gold Medals? Did you see Mo Farrah looking at his heart rate when he won the 5,000 & 10,000 meters? Winners don't race by numbers.


As someone who currently manages 3 Olympic Champion cyclists and 2 members of Team Sky I think I probably know more than most on how these guys go about preparing to win. Why do you think the guys have power meters on their bikes when they ride? their training dictates how long they can hold a certain level of effort for and then they apply that to a race situation, i.e. if they know (through training) the maximum they can hold a 500W effort for is 20mins without blowing up and that's what it takes to get up the Tourmalet, then come race day they'll be looking for 500W on the SRM and hold it there to the top.

This is why you don't see Brad jumping out the saddle on climbs, he knows exactly what wattage he's going to ride each climb and he keeps it there.

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:03 pm

stevez wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:

I fear some people may never learn how to feel properly if they start out using numbers. We already have a race of people who can't do the slightest calculation in their head, need an app to tell them when to drink or take on carbohydrate, need a GPS device to get them home, now we are encouraging cyclists to become reliant on heart rate and watts. Might as well have a chip put in our head at birth.


It's called evolution, and it's exactly this approach that has made British Cycling and Team Sky the envy of the rest of the World. Becoming better at cycling isn't a dark art, it's science, and it's governed by numbers!


In 5 or 10 years we might know how much was dark art and how much was science. It will also be interesting to see how well BC & Sky do now so many of their dark art practitioners have had to leave. Wiggins tour victory is tainted, his team on the road and the coaching team contained self confessed cheats. There is a lot more to their science than power meter or heart rate data, be it legal or not.

I assume you and your riders are pleased to see the back of the cheats? Did you know about these cheats? How did your riders feel working with those cheats? Why didn't your riders go to the authorities about these cheats? Were they friendly with these cheats? I assume you didn't manage any of those who had to leave Sky?

As you know so much about how these guys prepare to win please enlighten us. Don't worry about the power meter data, we all know about that, it is freely available to anyone, nothing clever, there is even cheap software, or free software.

I'm interesting in what they really do.

Edit: If you know so much about cycling why are you planning to train using a heart rate monitor - you must be able to afford a power meter. You do know Sky pay little or no attention to heart rate.

stevez
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby stevez » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:24 pm

Standard response to the 'old school' of we do it on feel brigade, is when someone innovates in cycling and uses sports science to succeed, then they must be doping. I understand why guys like you feel this way but if you know anything about guys like Dave Brailsford, Shane Sutton, Matt Parker and Tim Kerrison you'll know that isn't Team Sky's way of operating.

As for me i'm pretty rubbish on a bike, but want to get better. Yes, power is better than using HR, but I don't want to spank £1,200 on SRM cranks whether I can afford them or not.

Anyway shall we try and get back on topic!

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:33 pm

stevez wrote:Standard response to the 'old school' of we do it on feel brigade, is when someone innovates in cycling and uses sports science to succeed, then they must be doping. I understand why guys like you feel this way but if you know anything about guys like Dave Brailsford, Shane Sutton, Matt Parker and Tim Kerrison you'll know that isn't Team Sky's way of operating.

As for me i'm pretty rubbish on a bike, but want to get better. Yes, power is better than using HR, but I don't want to spank £1,200 on SRM cranks whether I can afford them or not.

Anyway shall we try and get back on topic!


I do know I'm surprised Brailsford, Sutton & Kerrison were happy to work with cheats.

You assume I don't train with power, I do, I also use feel & heart rate. Feel always works, gadgets don't. Can't help but think there is so much power meter data talk coming from Sky because TrainingPeaks is now a sponsor. They never mentioned it before.
Last edited by Trev The Rev on Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

danowat
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby danowat » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:36 pm

Trev The Rev wrote:You assume I don't train with power, I do, I also use feel & heart rate. Feel always works, gadgets don't.


You (again) assume you are unique in the fact that you use feel to supplement power (and or HR), you aren't.

Trev The Rev
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Trev The Rev » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:37 pm

danowat wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:You assume I don't train with power, I do, I also use feel & heart rate. Feel always works, gadgets don't.


You (again) assume you are unique in the fact that you use feel to supplement power (and or HR), you aren't.


You again.

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Team4Luke
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Team4Luke » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:38 pm

stevez wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
You need to speak to some elite athletes that have won races. Do you think Sir Steve Redgrave was looking at power data when he won those Gold Medals? Did you see Mo Farrah looking at his heart rate when he won the 5,000 & 10,000 meters? Winners don't race by numbers.


As someone who currently manages 3 Olympic Champion cyclists and 2 members of Team Sky I think I probably know more than most on how these guys go about preparing to win. Why do you think the guys have power meters on their bikes when they ride? their training dictates how long they can hold a certain level of effort for and then they apply that to a race situation, i.e. if they know (through training) the maximum they can hold a 500W effort for is 20mins without blowing up and that's what it takes to get up the Tourmalet, then come race day they'll be looking for 500W on the SRM and hold it there to the top.

This is why you don't see Brad jumping out the saddle on climbs, he knows exactly what wattage he's going to ride each climb and he keeps it there.


equally also you could underperform as well by following numbers, race day brings adrenaline and extra competitiveness where you are able to give it more rather than let riders go away while your stuck with numbers.
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Team4Luke
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby Team4Luke » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:39 pm

and GC does not provide that data in answer to the question, you need aftermarket training software.
Bring back Polar Advisor I say !
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maddog 2
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby maddog 2 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:42 pm

aside from all this wittering, can anyone actually answer the original question?

Or if Connect can't do it, whether another software/method can give you the zone times?
Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer

rsands
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Re: HR Zones analysis

Postby rsands » Wed Jan 02, 2013 13:49 pm

Trev the Rev you should be on the tour de france podium! Every post seems to show your quite powerful with knowledge and getting the best. How is someone meant to know from feel if they have no knowledge of what it feels like.

I played sports all my life in small quantities but i wasnt a heart rate expert by feel as i never knew my heart rate - all i knew was i was breathing quite fine and breaking a sweat. I know now by feel and usually glance at heart rate to backup my feeling. Your comparing apples and oranges - the pros know because they have had that training, they know their heart rate by feel...how did they learn that? By guess? By Chance? No they learn by someone telling them or reading what their heart was doing. I learnt to know my hear rate by feel by feeling what it was like at different rates over a period of time

The OP was asking a question about seeing the data and all you have done is provide a useless answer

Back to OP - can you not see the graphs in Connect? It would show it in chart form - not sure if connect can show time spent in each zone - or I must have missed it :)


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