rest and recovery weeks

When drugs don't work: training and health tips!
joe.90
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rest and recovery weeks

Postby joe.90 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 16:55 pm

in terms of rest weeks, what do you lot do?

i get the general idea, i try to just lower the intensity rather than quantity..but to be honest have been crap at doing it. mainly because i hate riding my bike and not giving 100%, to me it feels pointless.

interested in hearing what everyone else does, gotta be someone else out there who feels the same? would it be best to stay away from the bike for a few days, or bite the bullet and just slow it down?

i do approx 12-15 hours a week, and to be honest, feel only my legs need the break sometimes rather than general fatigue.

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aidso
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby aidso » Sat Jan 05, 2013 17:06 pm

I don't know anyone who does a rest week, but I know plenty who subscribe to the active recovery days. They would spend every day on the bike, culminating with a race on a Sunday and then the Monday spin would be a Zone 2 easy pace - using the granny gears if you must encounter a hill.
How are you achieving your 15 hours? Is it 2 hours every day or or you doing 3 days of 5hrs? It doesn't strike me as a lot to need a whole week to recover. Your diet and an earlier bedtime could also benefit the recovery time if you think you feel a bit sluggish.

joe.90
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby joe.90 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 17:32 pm

aidso wrote:I don't know anyone who does a rest week, but I know plenty who subscribe to the active recovery days. They would spend every day on the bike, culminating with a race on a Sunday and then the Monday spin would be a Zone 2 easy pace - using the granny gears if you must encounter a hill.
How are you achieving your 15 hours? Is it 2 hours every day or or you doing 3 days of 5hrs? It doesn't strike me as a lot to need a whole week to recover. Your diet and an earlier bedtime could also benefit the recovery time if you think you feel a bit sluggish.


thanks for the reply.

the 15 hours is mainly 1 hour turbo sessions in the week, with a 2hr commute mid week, then longer rides at the weekend.

i think you are right on the food and sleeping side of things, im a crap sleeper, its something i need to address and i eat very healthy, but i dont think enough, as im always pretty hungry.

mike101
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby mike101 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 17:40 pm

Every 4th week I have an adaption week. I ride the same amount but at a lower intensity. It's definitely tricky easing off the pace, especially out on the road.

okgo
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby okgo » Sat Jan 05, 2013 18:19 pm

Never have more than a couple of days off the bike in a row if I can help it, obviously not always possible and I go on holiday etc.

I tend to always go on feel, whether that meant riding two weeks flat out with no days off or whether it just means a hard week where I need some time to not be on the bike, whatever worked I guess. A week is too long. And pointless.
Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com

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GiantMike
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby GiantMike » Sat Jan 05, 2013 18:31 pm

If I feel I've earned a rest I take it. I rarely work hard enough to need more than a day.
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Rule number 100: It's your bike and your money and your time; do what you like with it and ignore other peoples' rules. Except this one.

danowat
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby danowat » Sat Jan 05, 2013 20:58 pm

Rest week?, no

Easy(er) week?, yes, but only at the end of each block of training

Froomes Edgar
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Froomes Edgar » Sun Jan 06, 2013 07:53 am

GiantMike wrote:If I feel I've earned a rest I take it. I rarely work hard enough to need more than a day.


Exactly. If you're so tired that you can't train properly e.g. hit the numbers during intervals, rest until you can. If you're not tired, why rest?

Christ people don't half over-complicate things.

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Herbsman
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Herbsman » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:02 am

Froomes Edgar wrote:
GiantMike wrote:If I feel I've earned a rest I take it. I rarely work hard enough to need more than a day.


Exactly. If you're so tired that you can't train properly e.g. hit the numbers during intervals, rest until you can. If you're not tired, why rest?

Christ people don't half over-complicate things.

Because sometimes it's nice to have a break purely for psychological reasons or to spend time with the other half, or my mates, or my family. I might feel physically good after four weeks of high intensity training but following that up with a week of fewer & easier training sessions and doing something else with my spare time helps mentally. More importantly it gives me more time to spend with the woman in my life...

Froomes Edgar
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Froomes Edgar » Sun Jan 06, 2013 16:38 pm

Well if you're physically fine but want time off for other reasons, why would you need to drop the intensity?

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Herbsman
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Herbsman » Sun Jan 06, 2013 17:03 pm

Mental rest.

Besides that, even if you don't feel you need a rest, rest is still beneficial.

Who cares anyway? Each individual will do what they feel is best for them... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with that :?

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phreak
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby phreak » Sun Jan 06, 2013 17:22 pm

If you're not living like a pro you're not a real cyclist. Or something.

Froomes Edgar
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Froomes Edgar » Sun Jan 06, 2013 19:28 pm

Herbsman wrote:
Froomes Edgar wrote:
GiantMike wrote:If I feel I've earned a rest I take it. I rarely work hard enough to need more than a day.


Exactly. If you're so tired that you can't train properly e.g. hit the numbers during intervals, rest until you can. If you're not tired, why rest?

Christ people don't half over-complicate things.

Because sometimes it's nice to have a break purely for psychological reasons or to spend time with the other half, or my mates, or my family. I might feel physically good after four weeks of high intensity training but following that up with a week of fewer & easier training sessions and doing something else with my spare time helps mentally. More importantly it gives me more time to spend with the woman in my life...


As phreak fails to understand, it makes perfect sense to respond to questions in a Training forum with the optimal answer WRT making a cyclist as fast as he can be. If said rider has other priorities in his life (which we all do) then he's free to disregard. Otherwise, the answer to every question would be "list EVERY F*CKING DETAIL of your life in priority order before I can help". FFS

mamba80
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby mamba80 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 19:43 pm

Are you "ON" ?

Got to agree with Danowat, it has to depend on what your doing, family, work, stress and age.

Always try and get a few days of easier or shorter efforts in, especially over winter, dont want to get ill! Fatigue has a habit of creeping up on you, not coming on suddenly - as in your case :lol:

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SBezza
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby SBezza » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:02 am

I sometimes have "rest weeks", but they are not a week off the bike, it is just an easier week to allow the body to recover from the previous weeks hard training, you body only gets better with rest. Now that might be active rest, complete day off the bike etc, it all depends on what you have done in the previous weeks and how tired you are.

Those of us with powermeters can measure this tiredness, and also if you have a coach their experience will guide you. There is no real set timeframe however, the classic 3 weeks training 1 week rest might be needed in someone that trains very heavily, but those that do moderate training might not even need an R&R week.

It isn't just about hitting numbers, I could still hit good numbers even when extremely tired, but what that extreme tiredness will do is cause a very deep underlying fatigue that can lead to over training and lack of adaption. As mamba80 has said deep down fatigue creeps up very slowly, but can bite very hard indeed. All life stresses have to be taken into account, the body doesn't handle training stress and differently to work or life stresses, they all release the same hormones and the body will struggle to deal with everything if you just keep on hammering the body.

Trev The Rev
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Trev The Rev » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:07 am

SBezza wrote:I sometimes have "rest weeks", but they are not a week off the bike, it is just an easier week to allow the body to recover from the previous weeks hard training, you body only gets better with rest. Now that might be active rest, complete day off the bike etc, it all depends on what you have done in the previous weeks and how tired you are.

Those of us with powermeters can measure this tiredness, and also if you have a coach their experience will guide you. There is no real set timeframe however, the classic 3 weeks training 1 week rest might be needed in someone that trains very heavily, but those that do moderate training might not even need an R&R week.

It isn't just about hitting numbers, I could still hit good numbers even when extremely tired, but what that extreme tiredness will do is cause a very deep underlying fatigue that can lead to over training and lack of adaption. As mamba80 has said deep down fatigue creeps up very slowly, but can bite very hard indeed. All life stresses have to be taken into account, the body doesn't handle training stress and differently to work or life stresses, they all release the same hormones and the body will struggle to deal with everything if you just keep on hammering the body.


For the benefit of those who don't have power meters - how?

danowat
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby danowat » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:19 am

Just to flesh out my answer a bit, this week is my rest recovery week, and it's as follows.

Mon - 1hr Z1
Tues- rest (doesn't mean total rest, normally core work or similar)
Wed - 1-2hr's Z2
Thur - 1-2hr's Z2
Fri - rest (doesn't mean total rest, normally core work or similar)
Sat - 25 mile TT in training gear on local course, or CP20 on turbo, dependant on conditions
Sun - 2hrs+ Z2
Last edited by danowat on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SBezza
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby SBezza » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:19 am

Trev The Rev wrote:
SBezza wrote:I sometimes have "rest weeks", but they are not a week off the bike, it is just an easier week to allow the body to recover from the previous weeks hard training, you body only gets better with rest. Now that might be active rest, complete day off the bike etc, it all depends on what you have done in the previous weeks and how tired you are.

Those of us with powermeters can measure this tiredness, and also if you have a coach their experience will guide you. There is no real set timeframe however, the classic 3 weeks training 1 week rest might be needed in someone that trains very heavily, but those that do moderate training might not even need an R&R week.

It isn't just about hitting numbers, I could still hit good numbers even when extremely tired, but what that extreme tiredness will do is cause a very deep underlying fatigue that can lead to over training and lack of adaption. As mamba80 has said deep down fatigue creeps up very slowly, but can bite very hard indeed. All life stresses have to be taken into account, the body doesn't handle training stress and differently to work or life stresses, they all release the same hormones and the body will struggle to deal with everything if you just keep on hammering the body.


For the benefit of those who don't have power meters - how?


With the right software, you have a performance manager that can track training load (stress), both long term and short term and you get from this a training stress balance, go too negative or make a negative change in this too quickly and you will suffer fatigue. Keep it at a very depressed level and overtraining is very likely to occur. One caveat is that FTP needs to be accurate and all training rides should really be uploaded into the software to get a full picture. Each ride creates a training stress, and this based on intensity and duration.

Trev The Rev
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby Trev The Rev » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:32 am

SBezza wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
SBezza wrote:I sometimes have "rest weeks", but they are not a week off the bike, it is just an easier week to allow the body to recover from the previous weeks hard training, you body only gets better with rest. Now that might be active rest, complete day off the bike etc, it all depends on what you have done in the previous weeks and how tired you are.

Those of us with powermeters can measure this tiredness, and also if you have a coach their experience will guide you. There is no real set timeframe however, the classic 3 weeks training 1 week rest might be needed in someone that trains very heavily, but those that do moderate training might not even need an R&R week.

It isn't just about hitting numbers, I could still hit good numbers even when extremely tired, but what that extreme tiredness will do is cause a very deep underlying fatigue that can lead to over training and lack of adaption. As mamba80 has said deep down fatigue creeps up very slowly, but can bite very hard indeed. All life stresses have to be taken into account, the body doesn't handle training stress and differently to work or life stresses, they all release the same hormones and the body will struggle to deal with everything if you just keep on hammering the body.


For the benefit of those who don't have power meters - how?


With the right software, you have a performance manager that can track training load (stress), both long term and short term and you get from this a training stress balance, go too negative or make a negative change in this too quickly and you will suffer fatigue. Keep it at a very depressed level and overtraining is very likely to occur. One caveat is that FTP needs to be accurate and all training rides should really be uploaded into the software to get a full picture. Each ride creates a training stress, and this based on intensity and duration.


Wouldn't different people respond differently though? Two people may have the same FTP do the same training and one respond by improvement and the other might get seriously fatigued. You can't poke the same numbers into different people and expect to get the same level of fatigue out of them. One man may find a given training load easy to endure but another man may find that load over demanding but they may both have the same FTP. People respond differently.

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SBezza
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Re: rest and recovery weeks

Postby SBezza » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:44 am

Trev The Rev wrote:
SBezza wrote:
Trev The Rev wrote:
SBezza wrote:I sometimes have "rest weeks", but they are not a week off the bike, it is just an easier week to allow the body to recover from the previous weeks hard training, you body only gets better with rest. Now that might be active rest, complete day off the bike etc, it all depends on what you have done in the previous weeks and how tired you are.

Those of us with powermeters can measure this tiredness, and also if you have a coach their experience will guide you. There is no real set timeframe however, the classic 3 weeks training 1 week rest might be needed in someone that trains very heavily, but those that do moderate training might not even need an R&R week.

It isn't just about hitting numbers, I could still hit good numbers even when extremely tired, but what that extreme tiredness will do is cause a very deep underlying fatigue that can lead to over training and lack of adaption. As mamba80 has said deep down fatigue creeps up very slowly, but can bite very hard indeed. All life stresses have to be taken into account, the body doesn't handle training stress and differently to work or life stresses, they all release the same hormones and the body will struggle to deal with everything if you just keep on hammering the body.


For the benefit of those who don't have power meters - how?


With the right software, you have a performance manager that can track training load (stress), both long term and short term and you get from this a training stress balance, go too negative or make a negative change in this too quickly and you will suffer fatigue. Keep it at a very depressed level and overtraining is very likely to occur. One caveat is that FTP needs to be accurate and all training rides should really be uploaded into the software to get a full picture. Each ride creates a training stress, and this based on intensity and duration.


Wouldn't different people respond differently though? Two people may have the same FTP do the same training and one respond by improvement and the other might get seriously fatigued. You can't poke the same numbers into different people and expect to get the same level of fatigue out of them. One man may find a given training load easy to endure but another man may find that load over demanding but they may both have the same FTP. People respond differently.


Yes different people will respond differently, and it does depend on how the stress is generated as well, a 200TSS endurance ride is alot different to a 200TSS tempo ride in terms of short term fatigue, and too a certain extent long term fatigue (this is where the intensity and duration come into it). How you interept the information given out, is a skill that needs to be learned. It is not foolproof by any means, but as long as you know what you can personally handle it is a good guide. As you get fitter you can handle more stress as well, and probably hold onto the negative TSB for longer without feeling too unduly tired.


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