Cycle Training

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gtvlusso
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Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:09 pm

Slightly bizarre experience this morning;

I was a bit late getting up this morning and consequently had to MTFU a bit on the commute. However, on my journey around the ring-road cyclepath, I came across 2 female cycletraining instructors this morning. How do I know they were cycletraining instructors? Well, it said so all over their high viz kit - so clean that it could be seen on radar!

Anyway - both on upright bikes, panniers, mudguards and both girls looked quite overweight/hefty....but not obese - not a fit and healthy look, I would have expected a bit less girth for confirmed cyclists. Anyway, enough of the personal stuff; They were taking up the entire carriageway, riding slowly side by side and chatting.

I was behind them and staying left. I waited for my overtake as we were coming to a very narrow part of the path, so, I though to wait it out and then pounce once the path opened up again.

Anyway, one of the girls, on the right, decides she is going to drop back and tuck in behind her mate - I could see what she was going to do before she did it, so, I simply dropped back to make a space for her to tuck in - However, not a shoulder check, not a glance or anything.....No rearward/sideways checks at all. In fact, I think she crapped herself when I did overtake.....

The heartless side of me says ' you want to maneuver, you check your shoulder' - the flipside is that I should have indicated my presence anyway.

There was no incident, and I overtook and f*cked off without any effort - however, what does the panel think;

Is it the fault of the tailing cyclist to make their presence known? Or the fault of the heading cyclist for making a maneuver without shoulder checking? As I understood it, from racing, it is the cyclists obligation to check there is space to move into.....However, racing is not commuting...

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Wallace1492
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby Wallace1492 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:22 pm

definitely the fault of the cyclist manouvering in behind. However, on saying that, you should really have left enough room for any unexpected incident. Its like tailgaiting, not clever to ride too close to someone in front especially if they are not aware of your presense. In racing, it would be expected that there would be someone behind, so a check is always in order, but on a bumbling commute on a cycle path that might not always be what happens.
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rjsterry
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby rjsterry » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:34 pm

I'm not sure I've quite got my head round the scenario; do you have any headcam footage? :twisted:

50/50 I reckon. Could have just said "Morning" as you approached, and she could have checked before dropping back into a tight-ish gap.
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daviesee
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby daviesee » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:38 pm

Both.
Always shoulder check before a manouvre.
Always say hello to announce your presence. Unless you want a ninja draft before the overtake. :wink:
IMHO
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

Danlikesbikes
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby Danlikesbikes » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:43 pm

Both - if you were in your car on the motorway in lane 1 you would't just pull out into lane 2 without looking and indicating, just as you would not want someone in lane 3 to pull into lane 2 without looking and indicating.

As others have said would not tail someone that I don't know that well & would always try to leave some room as you never know what they are going to do.
Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.

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notsoblue
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby notsoblue » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:48 pm

So they went from two abreast to single file to let you overtake and you were riding close enough to startle them?

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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:49 pm

My thought was 50/50 in a non racing environment. In a race, it would be considered to be dangerous without checking your space.

I was a little surprised at the Cycle Instructors though.....not only for taking up the whole shared cyclepath, but also for not shoulder checking.

Sadly, no camera footage, not that anything actually happened or that I have any form of camera device. I am not a complete n0bend....just a partial n0bend.

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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:50 pm

notsoblue wrote:So they went from two abreast to single file to let you overtake and you were riding close enough to startle them?


No - re-read it.......if you can be bothered, it ain't important.

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notsoblue
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby notsoblue » Mon Jan 07, 2013 13:59 pm

gtvlusso wrote:
notsoblue wrote:So they went from two abreast to single file to let you overtake and you were riding close enough to startle them?


No - re-read it.......if you can be bothered, it ain't important.


Not sure I understand the situation then. What do you think they should have done instead? As a general rule though, I tend to treat most casual riders on cyclepaths like I would pedestrians.

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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 14:33 pm

notsoblue wrote:
gtvlusso wrote:
notsoblue wrote:So they went from two abreast to single file to let you overtake and you were riding close enough to startle them?


No - re-read it.......if you can be bothered, it ain't important.


Not sure I understand the situation then. What do you think they should have done instead? As a general rule though, I tend to treat most casual riders on cyclepaths like I would pedestrians.


The question was really: Should I have announced myself as a cyclist. Or should the cycle instructor shoulder checked before making a lane change?. There was no issue with me tailing, as I left quite a gap and was not close enough to see any winkage! There was no way I was gonna overtake at that point as it was too narrow - so I just waited.

If it had been an incident, I would have said 50/50....

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Kieran_Burns
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby Kieran_Burns » Mon Jan 07, 2013 14:59 pm

So you were staring at their arses and when one ars* pulled in behind the other ars* you gave them room.

You stated you could clearly see this happening so, obviously the buttocks telegraphed their intentions.

To facilitate the insertion of the said ars* into the clearly too small a gap, you pulled back a little and allowed her to slip in.

It seems that you were frustrated at being denied a double full moon and at this point stopped your noticeable slavering and overtook in a huff.

You need to buy a CX bike.

Perve.
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rjsterry
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby rjsterry » Mon Jan 07, 2013 15:13 pm

They might not actually be instructors - I've seen people with all sorts of stuff emblazoned on their hi viz. I reckon they are only wearing 'team kit' 50% of the time.
1997 Giant Peloton 7200 - FCN 4 (5 if it looks like rain)
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
1980s BSA 10sp

"Be there, eat sausages, gain ultimate respect"

suzyb
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby suzyb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 16:54 pm

Why is them not being skinny whippets a bad look for confirmed cyclists. I would say it's a good thing as it shows you don't have to be a stick insect to enjoy cycling.

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EKE_38BPM
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby EKE_38BPM » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:01 pm

You should do regular shoulder checks. End of.
You should always do a shoulder check before changing position (in this case, tucking in behind the other instructor).
Riding two abreast is OK as long as you go single file for oncoming traffic or to allow other cyclists to overtake (you should know they are coming because of your regular shoulder checks).
A cyclist (or car) shouldn't need to announce their presence when coming up behind others. It may be advisable sometimes, but it shouldn't be necessary.

I have been advised not to wear my instructor hi-viz when not actually instructing, partly because others will always expect perfection & will get on your case for any infraction (real or perceived) and partly for the anonymity (you wouldn't choose to drive a car/van with your work contact details when you're not actually working, would you).

I've never met an overweight cycling instructor. Cycling across London, cycling all day then cycling back keeps the lard at bay. Maybe they weren't instructors?
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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:05 pm

suzyb wrote:Why is them not being skinny whippets a bad look for confirmed cyclists. I would say it's a good thing as it shows you don't have to be a stick insect to enjoy cycling.


My response is; to be an efficient instructor you should have some experience of cycling - i.e. mileage under your belt, which would suggest 'waif'/skinny non gender specific....even the most ponderous lose some weight and it is undoubtedly a health benefit.

Although not the direct point, I think I would be asking myself, were I to be instructed by someone who was clearly overweight - Am I actually gonna get any fitter and lose some weight and how much mileage do you do?

I guess it opens up another question; Just because you have the qualification, does it actually make you any good if you have little experience? Assumed that road mileage is linked to weight loss......

Anyway, no incident and my personal comments are unnecessary - point taken.

**For all I know, they could have been ex-world champions.....

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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:10 pm

rjsterry wrote:They might not actually be instructors - I've seen people with all sorts of stuff emblazoned on their hi viz. I reckon they are only wearing 'team kit' 50% of the time.


This is also a good point. Both in matching high viz, matching panniers and matching 'flat bar' bikes made me suspicious though. I could be wrong though.

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jonomc4
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby jonomc4 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:27 pm

if they weren't fat you would have stayed behind them for longer - so I blame them for being fat.

kelsen
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby kelsen » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:33 pm

gtvlusso wrote:**For all I know, they could have been ex-world champion pie-eaters.....


FTFY

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gtvlusso
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby gtvlusso » Mon Jan 07, 2013 17:37 pm

Kieran_Burns wrote:So you were staring at their arses and when one ars* pulled in behind the other ars* you gave them room.

You stated you could clearly see this happening so, obviously the buttocks telegraphed their intentions.

To facilitate the insertion of the said ars* into the clearly too small a gap, you pulled back a little and allowed her to slip in.

It seems that you were frustrated at being denied a double full moon and at this point stopped your noticeable slavering and overtook in a huff.

You need to buy a CX bike.

Perve.


I was waiting for one of them to 'wink' at me.... :shock:

suzyb
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Re: Cycle Training

Postby suzyb » Mon Jan 07, 2013 18:23 pm

gtvlusso wrote:
suzyb wrote:Why is them not being skinny whippets a bad look for confirmed cyclists. I would say it's a good thing as it shows you don't have to be a stick insect to enjoy cycling.


My response is; to be an efficient instructor you should have some experience of cycling - i.e. mileage under your belt, which would suggest 'waif'/skinny non gender specific....even the most ponderous lose some weight and it is undoubtedly a health benefit.

Although not the direct point, I think I would be asking myself, were I to be instructed by someone who was clearly overweight - Am I actually gonna get any fitter and lose some weight and how much mileage do you do?

I guess it opens up another question; Just because you have the qualification, does it actually make you any good if you have little experience? Assumed that road mileage is linked to weight loss......

Anyway, no incident and my personal comments are unnecessary - point taken.

**For all I know, they could have been ex-world champions.....

I see what you mean now. I just couldn't see what their weight had to do with them being able to train people to ride safely (as I understand their role to be).

even the most ponderous lose some weight and it is undoubtedly a health benefit.

Speaking from experience, not unless your using quite a bit more than your taking in :(


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