Schwalbe.

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rubertoe
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Schwalbe.

Postby rubertoe » Thu Jan 10, 2013 08:26 am

With all the visits I have ben having recently from everyones favourite Fairy, i'm in the line for some new tyres for my Focus.

I have Conti Gatorskins on their at the moment and they have done me proud; but I have never been overly confident of them in the wet. So I am thinking of getting some Schwalbe as they have a bit more tred.

What is the Difference between this Marathon Greenguard and this Marathon Smartguard?

They both appear to be very similar.

Also anyone had any problems with either of these tyre or have any other recomendations at this price point. Circa £50 for a pair.
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

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MichaelW
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby MichaelW » Thu Jan 10, 2013 08:59 am

The plain Marathon now uses Greenguard.
Marathon Plus uses Smartguard, a thicker layer of protection.

M+ is regarded as the toughest tyre around but it is a bugger to mount.
The plain Marathon is pretty resistant and easier to fit onto rims.

DaveRobinette
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby DaveRobinette » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:01 am

Hi, I have the green guards on my touring bike, absolutely fantastic tyres, good amount of grip and haven't worn down much. I did 900 miles around the Scottish highlands on some pretty bad roads, including to cape wrath and not a single puncture for me or my friend on the same tyres. One was a pig to fit, but was probably the rim.
As far as I know green guard is better than smart guard.
I have some 23mm Durano pluses still boxed if you want. They are great grippy training tyres, but roll faster than the marathons and still have smart guard. £40 for the pair? Sorry to shamelessly try and flog these to you.

DaveRobinette
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby DaveRobinette » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:03 am

Ok I stand corrected about green/smart guard :P

pastryboy
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby pastryboy » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:09 am

I looked at this and the green guard one appeared to weigh the same as the + so I assumed they must have the same level of protection. The only difference I could find was the price and tread pattern so I went for the green guard. They've been fine so far.

These types of tyres are good for puncture protection (I've had a few punctures on +'s they're not impenetrable) but they're not the best when it comes to grip.

edit: I think Schwalbe changed the naming recently. Not so long ago a plain Marathon had no 'guard' at all it was just kevlar - there's still some for sale on ebay.

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meanredspider
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby meanredspider » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:34 am

Why do you want "tread"? On road surfaces, for bikes, it serves absolutely no purpose. On cars, it's only there to clear water and thereby limit the risk of aquaplaning but bike tyres are far too narrow to suffer from this. Grip from a bike tyre on the road is all about the tyre compound - any tread is actually just reducing the area of rubber in contact with the ground and may even be reducing grip. I use Vittoria Rubino Pros which, apart from large shards of (green) bottle glass, seem to have been pretty bulletproof. Vittoria do a "tech" version which is designed to have better wet weather grip. The Rubino rolls better than the Gators (which I used to use) and, IME, have better puncture protection too.
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH

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rubertoe
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby rubertoe » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:40 am

I had thought about the "tread" issue and if a tyre with "tread" would have less grip than a slick due to surface contact. Thanks for confirming that for me MRS.

<wanders off to look at Vittoria>
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills

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Rolf F
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Rolf F » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:45 am

meanredspider wrote:Why do you want "tread"? On road surfaces, for bikes, it serves absolutely no purpose. On cars, it's only there to clear water and thereby limit the risk of aquaplaning but bike tyres are far too narrow to suffer from this.


And there is the speed issue - I read somewhere (on the internet so it must be true) that you might theoretically be able to aquaplane a bike tyre but you'd have to be doing at least 50 mph. In the wet obv :lol:
Faster than a tent.......

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meanredspider
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby meanredspider » Thu Jan 10, 2013 09:57 am

rubertoe wrote:I had thought about the "tread" issue and if a tyre with "tread" would have less grip than a slick due to surface contact. Thanks for confirming that for me MRS.

<wanders off to look at Vittoria>


Race cars run slick tyres for that very reason. They also run treaded tyres in the wet to both clear water and to aid the warming of the tyre compound through movement of the tread blocks (it's difficult to get a tyre up to operating temperature &, therefore, pressure when it's constantly being cooled by water). Obviously there's not really enough energy going through a bike tyre to influence its temperature.

Clearly, off-road is a different story. So is snow.
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH

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Fireblade96
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Fireblade96 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:01 am

FWIW, I run a rear Marathon+ and a front Marathon (not +) on the Pompino, and they've been pretty good so far.
I had a few p*unctures in the OE rear Marathon, so bought a pair of M+, but after the struggle to fit the rear M+ I kept the front as is.

My commute is only 4.5 miles each way, and includes a fair bit of muddy canal path so I like the little bit of tread these tyres have.

I have now replaced my p*ncture kit with an emergency tenner - if I ever get a visit affecting the rear tyre, there's no way I'm trying to fix that by the roadside, I'll walk to the main road and take the bike home in a cab !

Also worth noting that the thick, heavy carcass of the M+ makes it feel like you're riding a solid tyre, or already have a p* - but it's good training ;-)
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notsoblue
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby notsoblue » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:05 am

I've got Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres on my tourer. I didn't find them as hard to fit as others seem to have (perhaps its easier to fit them on disc brake wheels, different rim?). They're pretty heavy, but they look nigh on impregnable (I've not stress tested them yet.). With hub gearing I didn't fancy having to fix many punctures :)

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notsoblue
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby notsoblue » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:33 am

Image

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The Rookie
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby The Rookie » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:01 pm

Tread doesn't reduce grip (there is no area in the calculation of friction) but it does effect temperature handling and hysterisis (rolling resistance). A tread pattern at least tells you a tyre is worn out before canvas appears!.

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pangolin
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby pangolin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:32 pm

But... 1m squared of rubber on the road would have more grip than 1mm squared. How does area not affect it?
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meanredspider
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby meanredspider » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:48 pm

The Beginner wrote:Tread doesn't reduce grip (there is no area in the calculation of friction) but it does effect temperature handling and hysterisis (rolling resistance). A tread pattern at least tells you a tyre is worn out before canvas appears!.


In simplistic terms, you're correct (load being the key factor), but the way a tyre works is far more complex than simple friction.
ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH

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Rolf F
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Rolf F » Thu Jan 10, 2013 13:14 pm

The Beginner wrote: A tread pattern at least tells you a tyre is worn out before canvas appears!.


What on earth is wrong with this most traditional method of determining if a tyre is worn out or not? :lol:
Faster than a tent.......

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Blacktemplar
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Blacktemplar » Thu Jan 10, 2013 13:22 pm

notsoblue wrote:I've got Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres on my tourer. I didn't find them as hard to fit as others seem to have (perhaps its easier to fit them on disc brake wheels, different rim?). They're pretty heavy, but they look nigh on impregnable (I've not stress tested them yet.). With hub gearing I didn't fancy having to fix many punctures :)

^this

I've been running the same set of M-pluses for nearly 2 years and the PF has only visited once (a huge nail embedded in a bit of wood). The rear still has most of its' tread on it after almost 10,000 miles, and the front is even better.

Like notsoblue I have disc brakes and find the tyres fairly easy to get on/off.
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rubertoe
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby rubertoe » Thu Jan 10, 2013 13:24 pm

But what is the difference Between the two in the OP?
"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills

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Blacktemplar
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Blacktemplar » Thu Jan 10, 2013 13:37 pm

rubertoe wrote:But what is the difference Between the two in the OP?

Durrr.... um..... fair point, I was just pointing out my recommendation.

I think Greenguard may be replacing the kevlar in the standard non+ marathons. This thread discusses the issue of changing specs and the environmental disadvantages of kevlar

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=52209
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Coopster the 1st
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Re: Schwalbe.

Postby Coopster the 1st » Thu Jan 10, 2013 20:38 pm

Have you considered these: Durano Plus

I run these on my winter commuter and they are a great balance between P proof and weight.

I run the Marathon pluses on my hybrid and they are noticeably heavy, while the Durano's are not
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