Which tubulars?

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earth
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Which tubulars?

Postby earth » Mon Mar 11, 2013 13:05 pm

I'm considering tubular wheels and the question I can't answer myself is which tyres.

I'm particularly concerned with punctures. I envisage fixing a tubular on the road to be difficult and I'm worried that a new tyre on the rim would roll off.

So I want good puncture protection but I'd hate to loose out on rolling resistance,w eight, grip etc..


I have experience of some clincher versions of tubs like Vittoria Open Corsa CX and I read Michellin have come out with a tubular recently.

The Michellin appears to me to be a different tyre altogether to the Pro Race series and the few user reviews I have read are not favorable so although I like the Pro Race clinchers I think I will leave that one for a few generations.

I tried an open corsa CX clincher and it was a good tyre but I got a few punctures after about 500 miles. Not sure about those.

Then I have read about veloflex. The carbon for instance and read many good user reviews. But they are currently twice the price of Corsa CX.

I'm aware of Tufo but read the only decent one they do is the s33 special.

Then there is continental who do a range of tubulars. I would probably avoid the GP4000 tubular as I have had bad experiences of the clinchers.



Back to punctures. What about using tyre sealant like Stans No Tubes? Is it possible to put this in prior to a puncture? If so how long will it stay liquid in for in a inner tube - especially if it is a latex inner tube that leaks are and therefore solvent vapor?

itsnotarace
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby itsnotarace » Mon Mar 11, 2013 13:12 pm

earth wrote:Back to punctures. What about using tyre sealant like Stans No Tubes? Is it possible to put this in prior to a puncture?


Not recommended at all with tubulars that use latex inner tubes, otherwise when the tyre deflates the inner tube will stick to itself and then tear when you pump it back up again.

Tufo's are like sections of garden hose, can't recommend them at all unless you're only interested in weight

I run Veloflex Carbon myself (Summer use only), haven't tried any others you mentioned. If you are really concerned about punctures go for Veloflex Arenbergs

cougie
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby cougie » Mon Mar 11, 2013 13:16 pm

Surely adding sealant will add to rolling resistance ? Unless you're a full on racer - I'd avoid tubs.

earth
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby earth » Mon Mar 11, 2013 13:47 pm

itsnotarace wrote:
earth wrote:Back to punctures. What about using tyre sealant like Stans No Tubes? Is it possible to put this in prior to a puncture?


Not recommended at all with tubulars that use latex inner tubes, otherwise when the tyre deflates the inner tube will stick to itself and then tear when you pump it back up again.

Tufo's are like sections of garden hose, can't recommend them at all unless you're only interested in weight

I run Veloflex Carbon myself (Summer use only), haven't tried any others you mentioned. If you are really concerned about punctures go for Veloflex Arenbergs



Is any sealant useable? How are the Veloflex carbons puncture wise?

itsnotarace
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby itsnotarace » Mon Mar 11, 2013 14:10 pm

earth wrote:Is any sealant useable?


Do you mean before, or after the event of a puncture?

If you mean before, then no, I don't know any that will not congeal into a big lump somewhere in the tyre (under the force of gravity)

If you mean after, then yes you can use it, but with a latex innertube don't then let it then deflate - that means pumping the tyre back up every 2 or 3 days due to natural air leakage through the walls of the tube

earth wrote:How are the Veloflex carbons puncture wise?


None to date in 18 months, but as I said, I use them for summer only.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby thegreatdivide » Mon Mar 11, 2013 14:12 pm

earth wrote:Is any sealant useable? How are the Veloflex carbons puncture wise?


Vittoria Pit Stop. It comes in a small pressurised can so you can put it in your jersey pocket.

Tubular tyres are predominantly designed for racing, but that doesn’t mean a non racing cyclist can’t use them. You just need to understand that if and when you get a puncture you’ll need to deal with the situation a bit differently. It doesn’t mean that your ride is ruined and you’ll need to throw away an expensive tyre.
"Crevaison sur les paves..."

earth
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby earth » Mon Mar 11, 2013 14:29 pm

I guess a sealant could be used after the puncture and the innertube could be changed after the ride to avoid having to keep pumping up the tyre every two days. I use latex inner tubes already in clinchers so I know the air leaks out but realistically I think pumping them up every two days to stop them sticking together is not going to work.

Does the pitstop stuff stick latex inner tubes together if they go flat? How big is the can?

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markos1963
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby markos1963 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 14:43 pm

Conti Sprinter will give you a good balance of speed and puncture resistance(for a race tyre) If you really want a tougher tub then I ran Conti Giros for three seasons with no problems, other than them not being very fast.

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PeteMadoc
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby PeteMadoc » Mon Mar 11, 2013 16:12 pm

I've done loads of research on this and have settled on this set up

Veloflex criterium tyres. Carry a small bottle of tufo extreme sealant and also a spare tyre.

if I puncture I have two options, pull the tyre off and repair the punctured one when I get home, or just put some sealant in which apparently holds for about 3 months. 1st option is preferable bit the tufo bottle is so small I carry it as a back up.

the veloflex tyres are awesome. I did a crit at the weekend in the pissing rain leaning into tight bends and they gave me full confidence, they feel smooth on rough roads too.

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sungod
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby sungod » Mon Mar 11, 2013 16:16 pm

^^^this

imho if you are going to run tubs you may as well use a decent tyre, otherwise there'll be higher crr and they'll ride like a clincher (but a lightweight tufo is a good option to carry for a spare)

training in london i've had one puncture in about 1500 miles (veloflex carbon), i ride year round, it was a wet day on dirty road, i'm surprised to find they seem to cut less than conti gp4000s or force

i had no luck with vittoria pitstop, but after reading up it seemed tufo exttreme was a better option for sealing punctures on the road, so i carry that now

if you do hole one, you can diy repair or send it to...

http://www.tubular-repairs.com/

...some tubs are harder/impossible to repair due to construction, veloflex are ok

some crr info, mostly clinchers but some tubs too, it's a bit old now, maybe some newer tyres/compound updates would change things...
Tyre Crr, 7bar, 30km/h
Deda Tre Giro d'Italia 0.00380
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX 0.00390
Michelin Pro 2 Race 0.00420
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain 0.00440
Michelin Megamium 2 0.00470
Pariba Revolution 0.00480
Veloflex Carbon (Tubular) 0.00490
Michelin Carbon 0.00500
Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular) 0.00500
Panaracer Stradius Pro 0.00510
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus 0.00520
Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular) 0.00530
Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular) 0.00540
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front 0.00560
Continental GP Force (rear specific) 0.00570
Hutchinson Fusion 0.00570
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear 0.00570
Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular) 0.00570
Continental Ultra GatorSkin 0.00580
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS 0.00580
Schwalbe Stelvio 0.00590
Continental Competition (Tubular) 0.00590
Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular) 0.00590
Continental Podium (Tubular) 0.00600
Specialized S-Works Mondo 0.00610
Continental GP 3000 0.00670
Hutchinson Top Speed 0.00690
Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular) 0.00690
Continental GP Attack (front specific) 0.00730
Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular) 0.00730
Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular) 0.00750
Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular) 0.00770
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny

earth
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby earth » Mon Mar 11, 2013 20:14 pm

Does anyone have anything to say about the Vittoria Corsa CX's?

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby thegreatdivide » Mon Mar 11, 2013 21:16 pm

Open or closed Corsa's are my choice of tyre.
"Crevaison sur les paves..."

on-yer-bike
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby on-yer-bike » Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:55 pm

earth wrote:Does anyone have anything to say about the Vittoria Corsa CX's?


Yes they are too delicate for everyday riding on our roads IMO. I wouldn't road race on them for the same reason, (I did and I punctured). They are OK for crits on dedicated circuits like Cyclo Park.

I have switched to Conti Competitions which are more robust but not as tub like to ride on.
Both these tyres are repairable though.
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Monty Dog
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby Monty Dog » Tue Mar 12, 2013 13:10 pm

I've had Corsas on my race wheels for 4 seasons with no punctures - smacked them hard enough to break 2 carbon rims though! There are quite a few sealants available - just be careful not to use one with ammonia in a tyre with a latex inner. Caffe Latex for one. I've had good results with Tufo Extreme in the past too.
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meesterbond
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby meesterbond » Tue Mar 12, 2013 14:46 pm

Conti Comp tubs have to be the hardest tyre I've ever had to fit to any rim in the world ever... and that includes UST tubeless mountain bike tyres on Stans rims. They just don't seem to stretch at all.

I left them a week on a rim, inflated to try and stretch them but it was a horrible, sticky, gluey nightmare trying to get the damn things seated.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby thegreatdivide » Tue Mar 12, 2013 14:48 pm

I have to say that after 5 days of stretching my Corsas went on really easily and compared to their Open cousins which are a night mare to fit, these were the easiest tyres I’ve ever put on a rim!
"Crevaison sur les paves..."

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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby on-yer-bike » Tue Mar 12, 2013 17:50 pm

Monty Dog wrote:I've had Corsas on my race wheels for 4 seasons with no punctures - smacked them hard enough to break 2 carbon rims though! There are quite a few sealants available - just be careful not to use one with ammonia in a tyre with a latex inner. Caffe Latex for one. I've had good results with Tufo Extreme in the past too.

What pressure do you ride them at? I hit a pothole that put 5 holes in the tyre and the carbon Bora was fine. Do you only race with them?
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby on-yer-bike » Tue Mar 12, 2013 17:53 pm

meesterbond wrote:Conti Comp tubs have to be the hardest tyre I've ever had to fit to any rim in the world ever... and that includes UST tubeless mountain bike tyres on Stans rims. They just don't seem to stretch at all.

I left them a week on a rim, inflated to try and stretch them but it was a horrible, sticky, gluey nightmare trying to get the damn things seated.

Yes they are difficult but that makes them more likely to stay on. The last one I put on I stretched for 3 days but then didnt fit for a few months and it was a nightmare. The others havent been that bad.
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Monty Dog
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby Monty Dog » Tue Mar 12, 2013 19:33 pm

on-yer-bike wrote:What pressure do you ride them at? I hit a pothole that put 5 holes in the tyre and the carbon Bora was fine. Do you only race with them?


Yes, I only use my carbon wheels for racing. I generally run 100 in the front and 110 in the back - but I'm only 62kg. But in both cases they were both sharp-edge pot-holes and didn't realise I'd damaged the wheels until after. One rim was a old Ambrosio, so didn't owe me anything, however the other was a brand new Corima (who make Campagnolo carbon rims) - impact cause the fairing part to delaminate from the rim.
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

meesterbond
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Re: Which tubulars?

Postby meesterbond » Tue Mar 12, 2013 19:36 pm

on-yer-bike wrote:
meesterbond wrote:Conti Comp tubs have to be the hardest tyre I've ever had to fit to any rim in the world ever... and that includes UST tubeless mountain bike tyres on Stans rims. They just don't seem to stretch at all.

I left them a week on a rim, inflated to try and stretch them but it was a horrible, sticky, gluey nightmare trying to get the damn things seated.

Yes they are difficult but that makes them more likely to stay on. The last one I put on I stretched for 3 days but then didnt fit for a few months and it was a nightmare. The others havent been that bad.


They sure are hell aren't ever going to roll off the rim! Just not looking forward to the day they need replacing!


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