Dutch Royal Family

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Headhuunter
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Dutch Royal Family

Postby Headhuunter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:13 am

So it seems the Dutch Queen is stepping down to be replaced by the first King since 1890 (or something). I work with a Dutch woman who is very excited about this, she wants to watch it on TV but we're stuck in the office. She says that the roads in the Netherlands are deserted because everyone is inside watch the ceremony...

So Rick (and other Dutchies), is the royal family really held in such high regard in Holland? Do we think QE2 will ever step down and what do we think will happen when she does? I think that there will be a lot of soul searching about the royal family in GB and its funding and size will be reduced, Charles will probably be skipped in favour of Will and Kate...

I'm old enough to remember Charles and Diana's wedding in 81. I was about 7 and was out on a bike ride with my dad! I remember the roads were deserted as everyone was watching the wedding on TV and then we had street parties which were fun. Will we ever see the likes of that again or does no one care about the royal family anymore (gawd bless 'em..)?
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cyclingprop
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby cyclingprop » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:48 am

I do wonder, given that hardly anyone paid attention to the Diamond Jubilee.

</sarcasm>
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Headhuunter
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Headhuunter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:52 am

cyclingprop wrote:I do wonder, given that hardly anyone paid attention to the Diamond Jubilee.

</sarcasm>


That's true, there was a lot of razzamatazz around the Diamond Jubilee and wedding but that was partly because there were bank holidays. A lot of people I know used it as a chance to get a holiday in rather than sit glued to the box watching the ceremony...
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TheStone
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby TheStone » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:55 am

Can't believe that in 2013 any country would still have a royal family!!!

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Asprilla
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Asprilla » Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:58 am

Headhuunter wrote:So Rick (and other Dutchies), is the royal family really held in such high regard in Holland?


The biggest public holiday in The Netherlands is Queen's Day. Great fun to be had walking to the German border and shouting 'Oi! Where's my bike?'

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rjsterry
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby rjsterry » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:05 am

TheStone wrote:Can't believe that in 2013 any country would still have a royal family!!!


Well, elected heads of state have a pretty patchy record. And if they are apolitical, on what basis do you pick one. Heredity seems as good a selection process as any - at least they have plenty of experience.
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Headhuunter
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Headhuunter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:51 am

rjsterry wrote:
TheStone wrote:Can't believe that in 2013 any country would still have a royal family!!!


Well, elected heads of state have a pretty patchy record. And if they are apolitical, on what basis do you pick one. Heredity seems as good a selection process as any - at least they have plenty of experience.


Yes, I've heard that argument before, if someone is literally raised to be a ruler from the day they are born, is that not better training than plucking someone out of nowhere? When companies appoint board members they don't hire some bod off the street to make important decisions, it tends to be someone who has been board member of another firm...
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davmaggs
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby davmaggs » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:57 am

Headhuunter wrote:
Well, elected heads of state have a pretty patchy record. And if they are apolitical, on what basis do you pick one. Heredity seems as good a selection process as any - at least they have plenty of experience.

Yes, I've heard that argument before, if someone is literally raised to be a ruler from the day they are born, is that not better training than plucking someone out of nowhere? When companies appoint board members they don't hire some bod off the street to make important decisions, it tends to be someone who has been board member of another firm...



The flaw in that is that few people believe that royalty is chosen by God.

Also feudal systems are essentially mafia clans struggling for control and every so often one clan outfights another and there is a new regime. Modern society (and the law, which was designed to protect those feudal familes), no longer allows for regime change.

Headhuunter
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Headhuunter » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:08 pm

davmaggs wrote:
Headhuunter wrote:
Well, elected heads of state have a pretty patchy record. And if they are apolitical, on what basis do you pick one. Heredity seems as good a selection process as any - at least they have plenty of experience.

Yes, I've heard that argument before, if someone is literally raised to be a ruler from the day they are born, is that not better training than plucking someone out of nowhere? When companies appoint board members they don't hire some bod off the street to make important decisions, it tends to be someone who has been board member of another firm...



The flaw in that is that few people believe that royalty is chosen by God.

Also feudal systems are essentially mafia clans struggling for control and every so often one clan outfights another and there is a new regime. Modern society (and the law, which was designed to protect those feudal familes), no longer allows for regime change.


I don't see that being chosen by God, or the belief that a ruler has been chosen by God necessarily makes them a bad King or Queen. They may still turn out to rule well. Anyway I'm not necessarily a fan of feudal systems, just thought I would play devil's advocate...
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rubertoe
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby rubertoe » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:11 pm

Real Life Game of Thrones.

Which one has the Dragons? that is the one that I'm supporting.
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rjsterry
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby rjsterry » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:52 pm

davmaggs wrote:
Headhuunter wrote:
Well, elected heads of state have a pretty patchy record. And if they are apolitical, on what basis do you pick one. Heredity seems as good a selection process as any - at least they have plenty of experience.

Yes, I've heard that argument before, if someone is literally raised to be a ruler from the day they are born, is that not better training than plucking someone out of nowhere? When companies appoint board members they don't hire some bod off the street to make important decisions, it tends to be someone who has been board member of another firm...



The flaw in that is that few people believe that royalty is chosen by God.

Also feudal systems are essentially mafia clans struggling for control and every so often one clan outfights another and there is a new regime. Modern society (and the law, which was designed to protect those feudal familes), no longer allows for regime change.


You're confusing the feudal system - where land or other property was granted by a lord to a vassal in return for allegiance and some form of service - with the hereditary principle - a son (or occasionally daughter) inheriting their father's titles and property. But, yes, medieval politics was pretty brutal stuff, although a lot was done through intermarrying; sometimes things don't seem to have changed much (cf. North Korea atm).

Anyway my point was that if you elect a non-executive and (mostly) apolitical HoS, on what criteria do you assess the candidates? Does it just become a popularity contest?
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Kieran_Burns
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Kieran_Burns » Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:58 pm

rjsterry wrote:<snip>

Anyway my point was that if you elect a non-executive and (mostly) apolitical HoS, on what criteria do you assess the candidates? Does it just become a popularity contest?


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rjsterry
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby rjsterry » Tue Apr 30, 2013 13:12 pm

Kieran_Burns wrote:
rjsterry wrote:<snip>

Anyway my point was that if you elect a non-executive and (mostly) apolitical HoS, on what criteria do you assess the candidates? Does it just become a popularity contest?


Become??? :?


Well, yes, but more so.
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1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
1980s BSA 10sp

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Apr 30, 2013 15:33 pm

Very popular. Even leftwing Republican papers are saying they admire the sense of community and unity they cause.

They do a lot more 'getting involved with the average joe' and attempts to understand the lives of most people. They are aslo quite tolerant of protests and opposition and often allow them a platform to do so which removes a lot of hostility.

Must aslo remember that church and state are very very separate so that regal aloofness re crowns and all that.

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walkingbootweather
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby walkingbootweather » Tue Apr 30, 2013 15:51 pm

So, if the Head of State needs to be very popular, to be familiar with the talent that Britain's got, to have the power to get terrorists outta here, but we are concerned that all the power vested in a single individual might go to their head. Ladies and gentlemen, I think I have the answer - Ant and Dec for monarch :)
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Rick Chasey
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Rick Chasey » Tue Apr 30, 2013 16:54 pm


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MaxwellBygraves
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby MaxwellBygraves » Tue Apr 30, 2013 17:07 pm

TheStone wrote:Can't believe that in 2013 any country would still have a royal family!!!


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Agent57
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby Agent57 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 17:45 pm

Headhuunter wrote:A lot of people I know used it as a chance to get a holiday in rather than sit glued to the box watching the ceremony...


Innit though. I even called my Garmin Connect entry Royal Wedding avoidance loop.
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ddraver
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby ddraver » Tue Apr 30, 2013 18:12 pm

I had a good night last night, put it like that....
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hubgearfan
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Re: Dutch Royal Family

Postby hubgearfan » Wed May 01, 2013 17:20 pm

used to be anti-royalist; now quite happy for UK to retain its monarchy, and consider it the best option. Seems countries that haven't undergone internal strife over the past 300 years or so retain theirs - including some of the most egalitarian - Norway, Holland, Denmark (yes, I know Norway's less than 300 YO). Not really up on constitutional matters, but there must be pragmatic, as opposed to sentimental reasons that these countries and others have retained their monarchies. Yes, an elected HoS might be ideal if we turned back time and started again. But to abolish the monarchy for no other reason than on principle that the HoS should be elected would cause more problems than it would solve, I suspect.


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