What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheels...

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drlodge
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What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheels...

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:38 pm

Lots of people asking about what wheels, or wheel upgrades. Many shying away from hand built wheels either because they think they don't understand enough, or hand built wheels will be too expensive.

I started a thread http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12932656 to explore options, I hope this opens a few eyes as to what can be achieved on a budget.

To go on my Rourke, I already have some nice wheels (Campag Record 32H hubs, Excellight rims, Sapim laser/race spokes GP4000S clinchers) but I wanted something a little more racy, but on a modest budget. I could have bought some factory wheels and paid around a grand for some light weight carbon tubulars, but I did some research and found I could have these wheels built for silly money. And because they use standard j-spokes, if a spoke should ever need replacing its a simple affair. No waiting for months to get a single proprietary spoke.

Hubs: NovaTec F171SB Front/F392SB ED Rear Hub, 24 holes £58 the pair including postage (sdeals.com)
Rims: Planet X 50mm Carbon Rim (the rear ones), 24H £99.99 each (Planet-x)
Tubs: 3 x Vittoria Corsa EVO CX II Tubulars 23mm £38.99 each (Planet-x)
Misc: Valve extenders: 4 x Schwalbe Valve Extensions £14.38 (Wiggle)
Building, spokes and internal nipples: £102.50 (Popular wheel builder on this forum)

So cost to produce the built wheels is a staggeringly low £360.48

Total cost of wheels with tyres including a spare tub is £491.83 - that's under £500 for a ready to ride set of top end wheels! [EDIT: I also needed Campag yellow pads, at £31.99, the rims come supplied with Shimano pads]

Should pick them up tomorrow so a ride report is to follow

Image
Last edited by drlodge on Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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smidsy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby smidsy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:52 pm

Oohh, arrgghhh, noooo, stop it....must resist.

Damn you have got me wanting some again!!!!!!
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spasypaddy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby spasypaddy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:54 pm

im very confused.

you state that you bought the PX rims and some novatec hubs and then you say they are top of the range wheels...

rickyrider
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby rickyrider » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:55 pm

Be interested to hear your report on these. I rather fancy a pair of carbon tubs, but what about changing brake pads each time between these and existing wheels? Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...

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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:00 pm

spasypaddy wrote:im very confused.

you state that you bought the PX rims and some novatec hubs and then you say they are top of the range wheels...


The quality of the parts might not be top end, but (a) the hubs do what hubs need to do (b) the rims are lightweight, 50mm section tubulars similar to if not identical to Gigantex rims. Why do you not think they are "top end" wheels, because they don't cost 4 figures?

I would call then top end wheels since by their very nature, they're deep section carbon tubulars. I would argue the quality of finished wheels is greater than the sum of the parts, and component cost is not necessarily directly proportional to quality. Value for money is at the top end for sure.

Do you think Zipp wheels are top of the range? From what I've seen they're crap, unreliable and dangerous.
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spasypaddy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby spasypaddy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:03 pm

drlodge wrote:Do you think Zipp wheels are top of the range? From what I've seen they're crap, unreliable and dangerous.

no, which is why i dont use them.

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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:04 pm

rickyrider wrote:Be interested to hear your report on these. I rather fancy a pair of carbon tubs, but what about changing brake pads each time between these and existing wheels? Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


That is something I have thought about, I should add the cost of carbon pads to the list too. I have yet to find out if its simply a matter of swapping out the pads (fairly quick) or if the pad holders will need realigning (pain in the ars*). I will certainly think when I change the wheels over, I won't do it for a single ride, more like for a week or more when I know the weather will be fine.

As I'm commuting more, the Rourke will tend to be used just at weekends, with the other bike being used during the week. Hopefully this will reduce the need for swapping the pads around (swap bikes instead).
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smidsy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby smidsy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:07 pm

rickyrider wrote:Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


You have overlooked the obvious flaw in your argument....the carbon tubs go on the carbon tub bike and the other wheels go on the other wheel N+1 bike silly.

No time spent changing anything.
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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:09 pm

smidsy wrote:
rickyrider wrote:Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


You have overlooked the obvious flaw in your argument....the carbon tubs go on the carbon tub bike and the other wheels go on the other wheel N+1 bike silly.

No time spent changing anything.


Don't - I so nearly bought a Scott CR1 Pro frame for £450, but now they're sold out of medium (thank god).
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smidsy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby smidsy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:10 pm

Wooose! :-)
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:13 pm

drlodge wrote: the rims are lightweight, 50mm section tubulars similar to if not identical to Gigantex rims.


The Planet X 50 mm tubular rims are Gigantex... if you look carefully, they have a sticker with some warnings, one of the warnings is to use the supplied Equinox brake pads. Gigantex and Equinox are the same company. They should really come with Gigantic-Gigantex stickers like Zipp, Mavic and Reynolds do, but then people would start threads on how to remove the stickers... :lol:

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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:17 pm

And before someone asks why I bought pads rather than use the supplied ones, its because the supplied ones are Shimano fit, but I have Campagnolo.
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:21 pm

drlodge wrote:And before someone asks why I bought pads rather than use the supplied ones, its because the supplied ones are Shimano fit, but I have Campagnolo.


That's always been Planet X self imposed limitation, at least in past years... they simply don't aknowledge Campagnolo's existence. Which in their books probably makes sense... pile them high, sell them cheap... of course you can't provide all the choice available on the market and you have to draw the line somewhere... given Campagnolo only makes niche race groupsets, I would have done the same to be honest. They probably cater for less than 1% of the world's folk on two wheels

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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby rickyrider » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:22 pm

smidsy wrote:
rickyrider wrote:Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


You have overlooked the obvious flaw in your argument....the carbon tubs go on the carbon tub bike and the other wheels go on the other wheel N+1 bike silly.

No time spent changing anything.


I know, I know... she's called the wife :wink:

rickyrider
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby rickyrider » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:25 pm

drlodge wrote:
rickyrider wrote:Be interested to hear your report on these. I rather fancy a pair of carbon tubs, but what about changing brake pads each time between these and existing wheels? Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


That is something I have thought about, I should add the cost of carbon pads to the list too. I have yet to find out if its simply a matter of swapping out the pads (fairly quick) or if the pad holders will need realigning (pain in the ars*). I will certainly think when I change the wheels over, I won't do it for a single ride, more like for a week or more when I know the weather will be fine.

As I'm commuting more, the Rourke will tend to be used just at weekends, with the other bike being used during the week. Hopefully this will reduce the need for swapping the pads around (swap bikes instead).


Makes sense. Tbh I could just use my Kona for any wet and grimy weather and be done with it, leaving carbon tubs on TCR for dry days... it's tempting.

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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:28 pm

rickyrider wrote:
drlodge wrote:
rickyrider wrote:Be interested to hear your report on these. I rather fancy a pair of carbon tubs, but what about changing brake pads each time between these and existing wheels? Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


That is something I have thought about, I should add the cost of carbon pads to the list too. I have yet to find out if its simply a matter of swapping out the pads (fairly quick) or if the pad holders will need realigning (pain in the ars*). I will certainly think when I change the wheels over, I won't do it for a single ride, more like for a week or more when I know the weather will be fine.

As I'm commuting more, the Rourke will tend to be used just at weekends, with the other bike being used during the week. Hopefully this will reduce the need for swapping the pads around (swap bikes instead).


Makes sense. Tbh I could just use my Kona for any wet and grimy weather and be done with it, leaving carbon tubs on TCR for dry days... it's tempting.


You can use the soft rubber pads for carbon on alloy rims, just they wear out a lot quicker. The cork pads instead are not suitable

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smidsy
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby smidsy » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:33 pm

I suppose I should get some tubs fitted to my Pianni (Pete Matthews Built) sprint rims seeing as I have them sat in the garage doing nothing.

This thread may just have kicked me into action :-)
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PeteMadoc
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby PeteMadoc » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:36 pm

drlodge wrote:So cost to produce the built wheels is a staggeringly low £360.48
Image


Good post drlodge

I ride a similar set of carbon tubs and I'm really impressed. I occasionally race/TT too and I feel comfortable in the knowledge that if they get trashed it'll cost me less to get a whole new set than have a spoke replaced on a top end Mavic wheel.

I would definitely recommend cheaper carbon tubs. Planet x are usually £400 fully built I think. Just to be clear does your full price include the build or did you do DIY?

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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:38 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
rickyrider wrote:
drlodge wrote:
rickyrider wrote:Be interested to hear your report on these. I rather fancy a pair of carbon tubs, but what about changing brake pads each time between these and existing wheels? Call me lazy, but it rather puts me off the idea. I find it hard to squeeze 2 x 90 min rides into my week as it is without extra time spent fettling...


That is something I have thought about, I should add the cost of carbon pads to the list too. I have yet to find out if its simply a matter of swapping out the pads (fairly quick) or if the pad holders will need realigning (pain in the ars*). I will certainly think when I change the wheels over, I won't do it for a single ride, more like for a week or more when I know the weather will be fine.

As I'm commuting more, the Rourke will tend to be used just at weekends, with the other bike being used during the week. Hopefully this will reduce the need for swapping the pads around (swap bikes instead).


Makes sense. Tbh I could just use my Kona for any wet and grimy weather and be done with it, leaving carbon tubs on TCR for dry days... it's tempting.


You can use the soft rubber pads for carbon on alloy rims, just they wear out a lot quicker. The cork pads instead are not suitable


Yeh but I'd rather not risk getting shards of aluminium in the pads that would scratch the carbon rims.
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drlodge
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Re: What price hand built, deep section carbon tubular wheel

Postby drlodge » Wed Aug 07, 2013 13:40 pm

PeteMadoc wrote:
drlodge wrote:So cost to produce the built wheels is a staggeringly low £360.48
Image


Good post drlodge

I ride a similar set of carbon tubs and I'm really impressed. I occasionally race/TT too and I feel comfortable in the knowledge that if they get trashed it'll cost me less to get a whole new set than have a spoke replaced on a top end Mavic wheel.

I would definitely recommend cheaper carbon tubs. Planet x are usually £400 fully built I think. Just to be clear does your full price include the build or did you do DIY?


Price includes build...£102.50 for the build, spokes and internal nipples. This more local builder I used charges the same for build & spokes as Harry Rowland.
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