Possible to make my fixie quieter?

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GJ255
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Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 23:09 pm

I have a Jamis Beatnik 2012 fixed gear, which is pretty quiet at the moment, but I can just about hear the chain over the sound of the wind and it's slightly annoying me. The bike's been ridden <100 miles and so everything is in pretty good condition, the chainline is at most 2-3 mm out, the chain well-lubricated and the chain tension not too high. I'm fairly sure the noise is just the chain interacting with the rear sprocket, but I was wondering if there was anything I could do to make it quieter? There is next to no noise at all coming from the chainset, so I thought it might be possible to achieve the same with the rear sprocket.

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pinarellokid
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby pinarellokid » Fri Sep 06, 2013 05:29 am

you either need to buy a new BB with a different length to give the correct chainline
or maybe adda shim behind the rear cog to move it inline slightly
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GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 08:46 am

pinarellokid wrote:you either need to buy a new BB with a different length to give the correct chainline
or maybe adda shim behind the rear cog to move it inline slightly


Hiya, thanks for the reply. I think my chainline is at most 2-3mm out, and it could easily be only 1mm out. At first it looked like the chain was having to swerve ever so slightly inwards to reach the rear sprocket, but when I removed the chain and looked down along my chainset towards the rear sprocket, I could see no noticeable discrepancy whatsoever... The bike is purpose built to be fixed so I would be tempted to say that chainline is not a problem. Unless 1mm can make all the difference...

pinarellokid
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby pinarellokid » Fri Sep 06, 2013 13:39 pm

what the gap like between chain ring and rear chain stay??
if there is a gap id say buy a slightly narrower BB to bring chain line 100%
they are only cheap arent they !!!!
Specialized S Works SL2 . Campagnolo Record 11spd. rolling on Campag Zonda wheels

http://app.strava.com/athletes/881211

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 14:46 pm

pinarellokid wrote:what the gap like between chain ring and rear chain stay??
if there is a gap id say buy a slightly narrower BB to bring chain line 100%
they are only cheap arent they !!!!


Well as I say when I looked down the line of my chainset I could see no noticeable discrepancy between it and the rear sprocket. I will go have a proper measure of my chainline to see if it is too large --- of course I don't know what 'large' is, perhaps you could advise me --- but I don't want to be messing a round buying and installing a new bottom bracket if the chainline is currently almost perfect!

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nicklouse
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby nicklouse » Fri Sep 06, 2013 14:51 pm

take a picture from the rear along the chain line and let us have a look.
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GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Fri Sep 06, 2013 20:22 pm

nicklouse wrote:take a picture from the rear along the chain line and let us have a look.


I can't get a decent photo of the chain but I have done some measurements: the rear sprocket is 41.5 mm from the centre and the chainring about 44.5.... So there is a 3mm discrepancy. Is that really enough to make a significant noise difference from a perfectly aligned chainline? And if so, what's the best way to adjust it? From the looks of things it doesn't seem like I would be able to modify the spacing at the front end, and I'm not sure how to remove space at the rear end... Here are a couple of pics if they help

Image
Image

Cheers

pinarellokid
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby pinarellokid » Sat Sep 07, 2013 05:29 am

why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??
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k-dog
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby k-dog » Sat Sep 07, 2013 08:30 am

If it's 3mm out then that's quite a lot.

Shorten your BB by 5 or 6mm if you can and that will help.
I'm left handed, if that matters.

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 09:57 am

pinarellokid wrote:why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??


It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:05 am

k-dog wrote:If it's 3mm out then that's quite a lot.

Shorten your BB by 5 or 6mm if you can and that will help.


OK, how would I go about doing that? I don't know if you can see from the photo but I can't see how on earth I would remove the crank-arm, and I also don't know how to find a bb that would be compatible and the right length.

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k-dog
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby k-dog » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:07 am

It shouldn't make any difference to the chainline - but it means you can't flip the wheel and use the freewheel side. The freewheel would only let you have drive going backwards.

The other problem you have is that your fixed sprocket and lockring are the wrong way - so there's a chance you could unwind it and that is really bad.

You want to flip your BB and do it properly.
I'm left handed, if that matters.

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:08 am

k-dog wrote:It shouldn't make any difference to the chainline - but it means you can't flip the wheel and use the freewheel side. The freewheel would only let you have drive going backwards.

The other problem you have is that your fixed sprocket and lockring are the wrong way - so there's a chance you could unwind it and that is really bad.

You want to flip your BB and do it properly.


It freewheels just fine...

Also for reference, according to the specs I have:
Bottom Bracket: Cup & Ball with seal, 116mm bolt-type axle

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k-dog
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby k-dog » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:09 am

And your pedals are also the wrong way - them unwinding is also bad.

You'll need a crank puller to remove the cranks and then you can measure the BB spindle - and then see if you can get a shorter one of the same type.
I'm left handed, if that matters.

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:16 am

k-dog wrote:And your pedals are also the wrong way - them unwinding is also bad.

You'll need a crank puller to remove the cranks and then you can measure the BB spindle - and then see if you can get a shorter one of the same type.


Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.

Back to the matter at hand --- from a preliminary glance it seems it would cost me in the region of £30 for a bb, plus I'll need the tool... I'm not sure I want to spend a quarter of what I spent on my bike on a shorter bottom bracket. Is there no other way to make a 3mm adjustment?
Last edited by GJ255 on Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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k-dog
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby k-dog » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:24 am

First things first you've just confused everything by agreeing that the chain is on the left - when it can't be if everything works - and now you say the pictures are flipped.

Sitting on the saddle the chain is on the right - correct?

So the only issue you have is chainline. It's easiest to add spacers to the rear - my local LBS has a big tub full of them and let me have some. You want to choose two that push the rear slightly to the right - so a thicker one on the non-drive side and a thinner one on the drive side - but they should add up to the original ones. Getting it within 1mm will make a nice difference.

The main disadvantage of that us that you can't just flip the wheel as it will be wrong the other way round - but you get a little slack on the freewheel side so it would probably be rideable.
I'm left handed, if that matters.

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Rolf F
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby Rolf F » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:29 am

GJ255 wrote:Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.


GJ255 wrote:
pinarellokid wrote:why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??


It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?


So it didn't 'come that way'. You might get a more effective response if you don't make stuff up and thus waste the time of the folks who are trying to help you.
Faster than a tent.......

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:30 am

k-dog wrote:First things first you've just confused everything by agreeing that the chain is on the left - when it can't be if everything works - and now you say the pictures are flipped.

Sitting on the saddle the chain is on the right - correct?


Yes, sorry for the confusion. I couldn't think off the top of my head which side the chain was on because I had never taken note of that sort of thing, but I knew I hadn't changed it or anything so I assumed it came that way. Then I went and actually took a look at the bike and it was on the right, which made me realise that the webcam I used to take the photo had presumably flipped the image.

So the only issue you have is chainline. It's easiest to add spacers to the rear - my local LBS has a big tub full of them and let me have some. You want to choose two that push the rear slightly to the right - so a thicker one on the non-drive side and a thinner one on the drive side - but they should add up to the original ones. Getting it within 1mm will make a nice difference.

The main disadvantage of that us that you can't just flip the wheel as it will be wrong the other way round - but you get a little slack on the freewheel side so it would probably be rideable.


Presumably when I flip the wheel I could just redistribute the spacers as well? Anyway, this seems like a very good solution to me if I can get it to work, I'm just wondering: currently the rear sprocket (+ nuts and washers) looks like it's flush with the frame, so wouldn't I need to remove something from the drive side, rather than placing something thin on the drive side?

Thanks

GJ255
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby GJ255 » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:33 am

Rolf F wrote:
GJ255 wrote:Sorry, I don't know what you mean by unwinding, nor 'the sprocket and lockring are the wrong way round'. Either way, the bike works perfectly fine, possibly because the images I posted have been reflected in the vertical.


GJ255 wrote:
pinarellokid wrote:why are you running it with the chain on the left side of the frame??


It came that way --- does it make a difference which side it's on?


So it didn't 'come that way'. You might get a more effective response if you don't make stuff up and thus waste the time of the folks who are trying to help you.


I beg your pardon, but I would hardly call it making stuff up. The bike came exactly as it is in the picture, because I haven't tinkered with it since I got it. I merely didn't realise that the image had been flipped. If you don't have the time to help me I understand, but in that case why are you posting on this thread? People have no obligation to help and if they feel I am 'wasting their time' are completely entitled to go off and do something else.

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Rolf F
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Re: Possible to make my fixie quieter?

Postby Rolf F » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:08 pm

GJ255 wrote:People have no obligation to help and if they feel I am 'wasting their time' are completely entitled to go off and do something else.


Of course they are. But if you want to get answers, it kind of helps if you actually pay attention to what you are being told. You can repeat as often as you like that the bike 'came like that' but it didn't. The chain is not on the left hand side of the frame even though you said it was and that is important and that caused confusion. Folk want to help - you owe it to them to pay as much attention to your problem as they are.
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