okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

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maddog 2
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okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 17:29 pm

I'm about to build a disc-brake roadie and need some 6-bolt disc wheels.

Just starting the process of researching it so any ideas are welcome.

Could be factory or handbuilt and either alu or carbon rims. I'm a fan of tubeless but could go std clincher if I must. Or indeed convert a rim to tubeless, which I've done in the past. Budget is probably sub£600 really. I'd be interested to hear what the wheel builders think (Ugo..) on some potential builds, or issues to keep in mind.

Riding is allsorts/general/sportives. Don't want/need big deep carbons but maybe 40mm is fine. I run 25mm tyres if that matters.

Some candidates might be a handbuilt pair of (Chinese?) carbon rims on a hub of choice (Hope, CK, DT, Novatec) or one of the factory sets starting to appear (EC90XD say, or maybe even the new Hope wheels - not checkedthe prices on those though).
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Sep 24, 2013 17:59 pm

DIsc wheels need to be built 2-3 cross, otherwise they will shatter when you brake... so that means 28 or 32 holes... if you want carbon rims, there are few carbon rims with such hole count... BLB sell some made in Taiwan of good quality, namely Notorious... 38/50 mm... not cheap at around 200 pounds per rim.
Otherwise Velocity A 23 is the jack of all trades, non machined, wide, light, goes tubeless. There are also the 29er rims, but my experience is that it's a bloody nightmare to fit a 700c tyre on and unless you want to use 29er tyres, I would steer clear.
Hubs... you can look at the Novatec 711/712 on Ebay... around 90 quid and they are excellent, or you can spend more and get Hope PRO 2... you can even go the Shimano XT route, very heavy hubs, but made to tolerate bearing wear

Typically these wheels are trouble free. I have a set that has been going for 2 years and done all sorts of things offroad... I also often replace the rims to try new ones and after 3 builds keeping the same spokes all is still very good and faultless... bearings are the original ones

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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:06 pm

cheers Ugo. Yeah don't want 29er rims. Been there and done that on the commuter with Stans Crests - way too tight for road tyres. I've seen a few promos of road disc bikes running carbon rims but they didn't say what they were, so I'm a bit in the dark there. Is BLB brick lane bikes?

I've considered A23s/Archetypes as they are solid and look good but neither are that light, and this wheelset needs to be better than just a 'solid everday set' so I'm erring towards a carbon rim, if possible. Especially since the barking issues with carbon won't be a factor.
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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:08 pm

Found the Notorius rim at BLB :)

a 28h build on a 38mm rim would be possible... if I used the cheaper Novatech hubs. The quoted weights look high... 505g for the 38mm :shock:

http://bricklanebikes.co.uk/blb-compone ... ous%20rims
Last edited by maddog 2 on Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:10 pm

maddog 2 wrote:cheers Ugo. Yeah don't want 29er rims. Been there and done that on the commuter with Stans Crests - way too tight for road tyres. I've seen a few promos of road disc bikes running carbon rims but they didn't say what they were, so I'm a bit in the dark there. Is BLB brick lane bikes?

I've considered A23s/Archetypes as they are solid and look good but neither are that light, and this wheelset needs to be better than just a 'solid everday set' so I'm erring towards a carbon rim, if possible. Especially since the barking issues with carbon won't be a factor.


Yes, brick lane bikes... well a 50 mm carbon clincher is heavier than an A 23 and a 38 mm is in line... if you want light clincher carbon rims you need to go into 20-25 mm... Broby makes some at 28 holes, but they are very expensive.

The Novatec hubs come as 32 or 36 only, I think

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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:12 pm

maddog 2 wrote: the barking issues with carbon won't be a factor.


phew
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jobless
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby jobless » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:22 pm

Just also remember that Hope only do disc hubs in 135mm so no good for a road frame. I got this from Hope last week:

"Hi, unfortunately we don’t make a 130mm disc hub. We only make a 135mm disc hub and it isn’t convertible to 130mm. Very sorry we can’t help with this one."

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ugo.santalucia » Tue Sep 24, 2013 18:47 pm

Is there actually any disc frame with 130 mm dropouts? I was under the impression they are either 135 or 132.5 to take both types.

The 38 mm Notorious are 430-440 grams I seem to recall, the 505 grams must be the 50 mm... still much heavier than a Gigantex tubular rim... the 38 are 330 grams.. :shock:

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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Tue Sep 24, 2013 19:25 pm

frame I'm using is 135mm.
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ClaudeH
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ClaudeH » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:21 am

I see that a number of the Enve rims come with a 28 hole option. Does that mean that these would work for disc brakes?

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iPete
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby iPete » Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:46 am

Not the lightest but depending on the bike either H+ Son F30 or Formation Face would be on my list, as the bike tart in me would want something that doesn't have a brake track.

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springtide9
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby springtide9 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:37 am

maddog 2 wrote:cheers Ugo. Yeah don't want 29er rims. Been there and done that on the commuter with Stans Crests - way too tight for road tyres. I've seen a few promos of road disc bikes running carbon rims but they didn't say what they were, so I'm a bit in the dark there. Is BLB brick lane bikes?


Sorry to jump in, but had a similar question @
viewtopic.php?f=40114&t=12942714

Looks like you have some experience with Stans Crests and road tyres. I'd like to be able to fit Conti 4 Season 28mms to Crests - I guess it was going to be a question, but a rant will also be acceptable (by the sound of it)

Sorry again for jumping in like this but also very open to disc only rim options for road tyres.

The ZTR Alpha 400 seem pretty light (as well as the less durable 340s)... but I've had differences in opinions regarding running 28mm tyres on these rims (local builder mentioned they are a bit narrow for 28mm where as a mod on the Stans forum mentioned they are similar internally in size to the A23)
Simon

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:04 pm

springtide9 wrote:
maddog 2 wrote:cheers Ugo. Yeah don't want 29er rims. Been there and done that on the commuter with Stans Crests - way too tight for road tyres. I've seen a few promos of road disc bikes running carbon rims but they didn't say what they were, so I'm a bit in the dark there. Is BLB brick lane bikes?


Sorry to jump in, but had a similar question @
viewtopic.php?f=40114&t=12942714

Looks like you have some experience with Stans Crests and road tyres. I'd like to be able to fit Conti 4 Season 28mms to Crests - I guess it was going to be a question, but a rant will also be acceptable (by the sound of it)

Sorry again for jumping in like this but also very open to disc only rim options for road tyres.

The ZTR Alpha 400 seem pretty light (as well as the less durable 340s)... but I've had differences in opinions regarding running 28mm tyres on these rims (local builder mentioned they are a bit narrow for 28mm where as a mod on the Stans forum mentioned they are similar internally in size to the A23)


I bought a set of Crest to fit to my bike, but before mounting them on I tried to fit a tyre... I could not fit a 32 mm 700c tyre, which is nornmally very easy and I could not fit a 28 mm Gatorskin either... so I returned them

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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:12 pm

I ran 28mm Conti GP4Seasons 28mm on the 29er Crests and they were stupidly tight. Don't do it. If you puncture on the road you better have strong hands and metal tyres levers and plenty of CO2 to seat the tyre.
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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:14 pm

I'm happy with the 28h comment. Sounds sensible.

Just looking at more Chinese rims - http://www.yoeleo.com/wheels.html

Can't afford Enve/Zipp/top end carbon but I'll take a punt on the Chinese stuff i think
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itsnotarace
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby itsnotarace » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:27 pm

If you do buy the Yeoleo wheels please post a review, I have just ordered a winter bike with discs. Now there is no braking surface to overheat, the problem with carbon clinchers is gone. DT Swiss have some nice offerings such as http://www.dtswiss.com/Wheels/Road-Whee ... E-sup-C-db but they are designed for narrower tyres

It's going to be at least another year or so before more manufactures catch on and start offering a bigger range of products

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springtide9
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby springtide9 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:53 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
springtide9 wrote:
maddog 2 wrote:cheers Ugo. Yeah don't want 29er rims. Been there and done that on the commuter with Stans Crests - way too tight for road tyres. I've seen a few promos of road disc bikes running carbon rims but they didn't say what they were, so I'm a bit in the dark there. Is BLB brick lane bikes?


Sorry to jump in, but had a similar question @
viewtopic.php?f=40114&t=12942714

Looks like you have some experience with Stans Crests and road tyres. I'd like to be able to fit Conti 4 Season 28mms to Crests - I guess it was going to be a question, but a rant will also be acceptable (by the sound of it)

Sorry again for jumping in like this but also very open to disc only rim options for road tyres.

The ZTR Alpha 400 seem pretty light (as well as the less durable 340s)... but I've had differences in opinions regarding running 28mm tyres on these rims (local builder mentioned they are a bit narrow for 28mm where as a mod on the Stans forum mentioned they are similar internally in size to the A23)


I bought a set of Crest to fit to my bike, but before mounting them on I tried to fit a tyre... I could not fit a 32 mm 700c tyre, which is nornmally very easy and I could not fit a 28 mm Gatorskin either... so I returned them


Sorry as you've answered here... what's the opinion of the ZTR Alpha 400?

Seems pretty light and if you read in this post:
http://messageboard.notubes.com/viewtop ... f=1&t=6555

(the last post)... implies the rim internal width is similar to the A23.

maddog 2 - please also post what you find in your search :-)
Simon

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maddog 2
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby maddog 2 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 13:34 pm

DTs look interesting, although they won't be cheap I suspect. And 24h... front and back
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ugo.santalucia
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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby ugo.santalucia » Wed Sep 25, 2013 14:23 pm

Do you want the carbon rims for the look or for the ride? 'cause many chinese rims are pretty crap in terms of ride... get the A 23, they're ace!

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Re: okay another wheel question, with a twist - discs

Postby thecycleclinic » Wed Sep 25, 2013 14:38 pm

The arcehtype has a black brake track. The A23 has been mentioned. If you are very light there are some very light (300g light) 29er Rigida rims but they are wide so tyre fittment may or may not be an issue. I will try them one day.

The new XT M785 hubs are alot lighter than the old M756 hubs so they are more atractive now.

Miche have released the new road disc wheels. under 1600g for a pair and 135mm spacing on the rear. I have yet to order one again I will have to order straight form Italy and they have there hubs available to wheel builder soon. They also have a carbon rimmed road disc brake wheel set. i could enquire about pricing if you like as I have no idea at present.

I have a customer who wants a 38mm deep carbon tubular rim for a fixed gear build 28 spoke. So I have used it as an excuse to import a sample rim. I am paying for it so he will have right of refusal but I am curious. So 28H are available in carbon if you are willing to import whether they are any good remains to be seen. I have seen this companies other rims and they seem fine and the riders who are using them (local to me so I them often) have not had an issue yet so I feel it is not a big risk. I am also buying a couple of other rims for myself for testing of course. We'll see in 40 days as they are being made for me. It might be a waste of money if so at least I will know.
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