Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

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scrumpydave
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Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby scrumpydave » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:24 pm

This has been driving me to distraction lately. It seems whenever I encounter an ASL (this in York) there's a car in it. Not all the way in - just the bonnet or maybe the front wheels. Even when I'm there first with the kiddy trailer attached the cars come right up behind me, seemingly oblivious to the massive white line.

So clearly they know they shouldn't be there or they would pull all the way up to the cycle stop line. And I fail to see the value as a time saving measure.

So what's going on??
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daviesee
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby daviesee » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:44 pm

Its moi land, I paid for it. Road tax innit? :wink:
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.

ChuckWoking
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby ChuckWoking » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:52 pm

I see it as a combination of pure laziness, being unable to check the cars position to stop in time, and a complete lack of enforcement.

Of course, I see plenty of cyclists doing the same even with an ASL, sometimes getting so far ahead of it they can't see the lights...ridiculous, they have to wait until the traffic starts moving, a few seconds after the lights have gone green, which totally negates any advantage from being that little bit further ahead.

I know as I usually end up overtaking them before they've even started moving.

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jonnyboy77
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby jonnyboy77 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:54 pm

who educates drivers on use of the ASL? Ignorance is no excuse, but it may explain the behaviour ...

On the same note, cyclists who think that traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, road signs and markings don't apply to them? I have a tough time getting annoyed with bad drivers these days, given the quality of cycling I see in the same environment.

Both sets of road users could benefit from better awareness and training?

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scrumpydave
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby scrumpydave » Mon Oct 07, 2013 13:41 pm

jonnyboy77 - the thing is I don't think they are ignorant. If they were they would drive all the way into the ASL. They seem to have a burning desire to break the law but only by a little bit... (if such a thing is possible.)

I'm genuinely baffled.
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First Aspect
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby First Aspect » Mon Oct 07, 2013 13:47 pm

Lack of enforcement. Plus failure to anticipate - same reason people block junctions by driving on to a junction when there is no way off.

In fact, I would say that the majority of drivers DO respect them (motorcyclists don't obviously). But if you want to be a stickler for the rules, you can only enter them on a bicycle using the filter in the gutter.

TGOTB
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby TGOTB » Mon Oct 07, 2013 13:50 pm

I did this the other day. Completely on autopilot, I'm so used to stopping in the ASL (on a bike) that I did the same thing in the car without thinking :oops: Realised my blunder as I was doing it, and stopped part way into the ASL...

Please note that I only did this once. I have *not* attempted to drive my car down bicycle lanes, filter between stationery vehicles etc, though my Mazda does do a mean trackstand...
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Headhuunter
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Headhuunter » Mon Oct 07, 2013 13:58 pm

The problem with ASLs is that they are never enforced. In fact the police don't even believe it's an offence to encroach upon them. I spoke to the police at the Prudential cycling event around London a couple of months ago. They'd set up their usual stand with an HGV which you could sit in to see the world from an HGV driver's perspective. In front they had an "ASL". I asked the plod about ASLs and he launched into a tirade about how they were not legal and in fact if they started to enforce them they would have to come down on cyclists who didn't enter the ASL from the "correct" side (where the white stop line is broken) which I thought was a bit petty. If there are vehicles in the ASL, personally I just position myself ahead of the ASL so there's no advantage to them encroaching on it.... The ironic thing is that in doing this I have been told off by police who have passed the cars/taxis/vans etc in the ASL and targetted me specifically for moving out of the ASL! I mean does the ASL exist or not? If it doesn't exist then why are you persecuting me for not being in it? If the police are concerned that I have crossed a white stop line then why are they not concerned that drivers behind me have done the same to encroach on the ASL? If ASLs are not legal then surely white stop lines are?
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Ride hard
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Ride hard » Mon Oct 07, 2013 14:11 pm

First Aspect wrote:Lack of enforcement. Plus failure to anticipate - same reason people block junctions by driving on to a junction when there is no way off.

In fact, I would say that the majority of drivers DO respect them (motorcyclists don't obviously). But if you want to be a stickler for the rules, you can only enter them on a bicycle using the filter in the gutter.


Don't get me started.

I know a lot of folk on here ride motorbikes, so can someone please tell me what the law is re motorbikes in ASLs? I'm pretty sure they aren't meant to be (not that it matters at most junctions I come across) but do anyway.

The whole ASL thing makes me smile sometimes. When I'm approaching a red light light at a busy junction from a distance I can usually tell the following will happen...

1) Cars stop and occasionally encroach into the ASL.
2) Motorbikes then filter past the cars and plant themselves in the ASL so they can pull away first.
3) Cyclists then filter past the stationary cars and motorbikes and end up in the situation @ChuckWoking describes where they can't see the traffic lights.

The result - the lights go green and motobikes and cars start going ape and honk their horns because the cyclist(s) haven't started pulling away.
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Gallywomack
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Gallywomack » Mon Oct 07, 2013 14:20 pm

If there are vehicles in the ASL, personally I just position myself ahead of the ASL so there's no advantage to them encroaching on it.... The ironic thing is that in doing this I have been told off by police who have passed the cars/taxis/vans etc in the ASL and targetted me specifically for moving out of the ASL! I mean does the ASL exist or not? If it doesn't exist then why are you persecuting me for not being in it? If the police are concerned that I have crossed a white stop line then why are they not concerned that drivers behind me have done the same to encroach on the ASL? If ASLs are not legal then surely white stop lines are?


But if a vehicle is stopped at the second line, (ie within the cyclists' box), he may be there for legitimate reasons, ie he has crossed the first line, the lights have changed, and he has then stopped at the second line rather than proceed across the junction. Whereas in doing what you describe, you are unequivocally crossing the second line on a red, ie RLJing. I wouldn't recommend you do this, tbh.

I suppose they are quite hard to enforce because in order for a copper to do so, he has to actually see the vehicle cross the first line on a red. Just finding a car sat at the second line does not mean they have necessarily done anything wrong.

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Veronese68
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Veronese68 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 14:35 pm

Motorcycles should not be in the ASL. When I was doing my motorcycle test I was told that I would be expected to make progress through traffic. This meant going to the front of a queue at traffic lights. ASL's hadn't been invented then so they didn't come up.
I failed first time I took my test for undue hesitation at a couple of points*, one of these was for not going to the front at a set of lights. The reasoning being it is safer for a motorbike to get away in front of the traffic rather than amongst it then passing whilst it is all moving. They know people ride motorbikes to get through traffic so they expect you to progress through traffic and to show that you can do so safely. Problem being if they still teach it this way it will put motorbikes into the ASL. Presumably they would expect them to go to the front and wait next to the lead car.

* I'm sure the real reason is that with my nerves I mad a short joke

Headhuunter
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Headhuunter » Mon Oct 07, 2013 15:01 pm

Gallywomack wrote:
If there are vehicles in the ASL, personally I just position myself ahead of the ASL so there's no advantage to them encroaching on it.... The ironic thing is that in doing this I have been told off by police who have passed the cars/taxis/vans etc in the ASL and targetted me specifically for moving out of the ASL! I mean does the ASL exist or not? If it doesn't exist then why are you persecuting me for not being in it? If the police are concerned that I have crossed a white stop line then why are they not concerned that drivers behind me have done the same to encroach on the ASL? If ASLs are not legal then surely white stop lines are?


But if a vehicle is stopped at the second line, (ie within the cyclists' box), he may be there for legitimate reasons, ie he has crossed the first line, the lights have changed, and he has then stopped at the second line rather than proceed across the junction. Whereas in doing what you describe, you are unequivocally crossing the second line on a red, ie RLJing. I wouldn't recommend you do this, tbh.

I suppose they are quite hard to enforce because in order for a copper to do so, he has to actually see the vehicle cross the first line on a red. Just finding a car sat at the second line does not mean they have necessarily done anything wrong.

But what if I crossed the 2nd line "legitimately"? Perhaps I was about to pass through the junction when the lights changed, just as the motorist behind me crossed the 1st line...
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Rolf F
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Re: Bonnet ASL encroachers - why??

Postby Rolf F » Mon Oct 07, 2013 17:58 pm

It would probably help if the ASL's were painted as box junctions only with the bike logo on them. At least some drivers seem to know what a box junction is.

I do find it vaguely amusing how the drivers that creep up through box junctions always seem to be particularly slow to pull away when the lights do change......
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