Where do you preceive the danager to be

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AndyH01
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Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby AndyH01 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 16:43 pm

Been meaning to post this for a while now, but more than ever as can't decide to get another light or not.
Where do you think the highest danger comes from; cars in front or cars behind? (eg trying to over taking without leaving sufficent room)
It strikes me the number of people riding without any lights at all or have super bright light on the front and very little on the back. My personal view is I'm more worried about been hit in the rear by vehicles squeezing too close (I ride secondary or primary where required, not afraid to take the lane if needed and ride out from the gutter) despite good road position. I am less concerned with the traffic in front, that I can see and predict and take action where needed (even if I'm just thinking rather than it actually happening) eg that car at the side road hasn't seen me/mis judges my speed and gap and might pull out in front of me, I can tell which cars are going to do this. I can think of a couple recent examples where I've had close encounters with drivers not paying enough attention (filtering on the right of stationary traffic, doing aprox 18mph, after already slowing due to conditions, lighs on red no ones going anywhere, car few cars down decides without looking/indicating, to pull out of line of traffic and turn right, just as I'm passing, I've already seen this on the brakes and swerved round; another time car praticaly right hooked me as they're turning left, as going uphill they'd misjudge the speed | was going at, and heading straight for the back of their car, I ended up taking the cornor with them to avoid collision as well as braking) whilst these instances show the danager as being in front (rather than behind) along with as I understand it, wider evidence, I have seen them and responded to them, whilst i haven't been rear ended I can't help but feel more vonlurable from the back, maybe I should get a miror so I can see what's behind to aid my hearing and shoulder checks when changing direction, but even so with a mirror, I don't see how I could take avoiding action if I saw a vehicle passing too close for comfort, unless of course it was heading straight towards me and about to rear end me. The point I'm trying to make is I find it easier to know whether someone in front has seen me or not compared to someone behind and whether they've seen me or not; What are your thoughts and experience and do you have a brighter front light then the rear?

rhext
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby rhext » Mon Oct 21, 2013 17:12 pm

Neither! The ones I worry about are the ones who come in from side roads. They tend to be looking for cars (in the wrong place), and it's for that reason that I tend to focus on a nice bright front light.

Cars coming up from the rear tend to have a lot of time to spot you. As a driver, I see the odd 'unlit' cyclist, and you tend to pick even them out from reflectors in plenty of time to avoid them.

turnerjohn
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby turnerjohn » Mon Oct 21, 2013 18:08 pm

As above.....its cars come from and turning into side roads that are the issue. I've been hit twice and several near misses from cars not looking properly. Cars in the same direction of travel have far longer and will see you easier....espcially with flashing rear lights (I say the plural as I use 2 proper bright and 2 backup) .
OP is right though I see so many idiots riding around at night with no lights on at all....not even a reflector and usually wearing dark clothes....if they got hit theyd be the first to moan ! I have to confess to speeding past them shouting "lights" :roll:

Stevie_gee
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby Stevie_gee » Mon Oct 21, 2013 18:37 pm

The moral of the story is clearly don't filter at 18mph.

A few worthless opinions:

1) If your positioning is good then even if you dont get seen from behind you can have room to get out of harms way.

2) Drivers behind you tend to see you for more time before you both are in close proximity, rather than when you're coming up on them emerging from a junction.

3) When I'm driving, the lights I notice 'most' are helmet ones (rear)

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bails87
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby bails87 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:03 am

If your positioning is good then even if you dont get seen from behind you can have room to get out of harms way.

Not really. On a narrow road, with a HGV driven by someone who hasn't seen you you'll have no escape room. And that's if you even have time to react. You might be completely unaware that he's going to squash you!

That said, being hit from behind is very rare, most collisions are at junctions.
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jibberish
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby jibberish » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:37 am

The 2 times I've been hit (in 7 years of daily commuting) have been from the side. I got one of these for exactly this reason:

http://www.monkeylectric.com/m232_bike_light/

I know it looks a bit knobby....but I don't really care. :-)

AndyH01
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby AndyH01 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 13:04 pm

The ones I worry about are the ones who come in from side roads
This is the thing, however, IMPE I can see/predict this and know which cars are likily to pull out and avoid the situation.

That said, being hit from behind is very rare, most collisions are at junctions that be my thought, is this based on actual fact or assumption/opinion?

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monkimark
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby monkimark » Tue Oct 22, 2013 13:40 pm

I don't trust any of 'em but the front light is probably more use in town where it alerts people pulling in/out of side roads as well as people pulling into the kerb to park.

Out on the lanes, where narrow twisty lanes increase the risk of being clipped a good, bright back light lets drivers see you before they round the corner & drive up your back wheel.

Having said all that, I'd never ride in the dark without lights, generally at least 2 at each end.

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bails87
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby bails87 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 14:14 pm

AndyH01 wrote:The ones I worry about are the ones who come in from side roads
This is the thing, however, IMPE I can see/predict this and know which cars are likily to pull out and avoid the situation.

That said, being hit from behind is very rare, most collisions are at junctions that be my thought, is this based on actual fact or assumption/opinion?

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/advicea ... gures.aspx
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AndyH01
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby AndyH01 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 17:05 pm

Thanks for the link. Makes interesting reading.

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The Rookie
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby The Rookie » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:59 am

For me vehicles from behind are the highest risk, you can rarely do much 'actively' to protect yourself, you can ride in a defensive manner, the best place on the road, you can speed up when it aids safety, but you are/should be considering that all the time, but you can do nothing ultimately from preventing a moron driving into you.

Traffic approaching rarely poses a risk to me (very little opportuinity for right turns across my path) and vehicles from junctions I can see and assess the risk of and either carry on or take preventative action (slow right down or even wave them out.

Classic the other day, white van overtook me on a narrow bridge, no room for me+him+car coming the other way, road turns sharp through 90 degrees at the other end of the bridge so he has no way of knowing he was going to get a clear overtake, I hit the brakes as a preventative measure as soon as he started the pass, he only had to wait about 5 seconds and we'd have been off the bridge, had a car come the other way I'm sure he'd have squashed me into the parapit and there would have been nothing I could do.

turnerjohn
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby turnerjohn » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:32 pm

The Rookie wrote:For me vehicles from behind are the highest risk, you can rarely do much 'actively' to protect yourself, you can ride in a defensive manner, the best place on the road, you can speed up when it aids safety, but you are/should be considering that all the time, but you can do nothing ultimately from preventing a moron driving into you.

Traffic approaching rarely poses a risk to me (very little opportuinity for right turns across my path) and vehicles from junctions I can see and assess the risk of and either carry on or take preventative action (slow right down or even wave them out.

Classic the other day, white van overtook me on a narrow bridge, no room for me+him+car coming the other way, road turns sharp through 90 degrees at the other end of the bridge so he has no way of knowing he was going to get a clear overtake, I hit the brakes as a preventative measure as soon as he started the pass, he only had to wait about 5 seconds and we'd have been off the bridge, had a car come the other way I'm sure he'd have squashed me into the parapit and there would have been nothing I could do.


Hitting the brakes when anyone is behind you is about the worst thing to do..especially as cycles don't have brake lights if he'd hit you that would have been your fault.
Without doubt vehicles from front or side are the most dangerous without taking into account the greater collision speed (their speed plus yours) !

Arthur Scrimshaw
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby Arthur Scrimshaw » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:42 pm

I think you also need to take into account the environment and the also the likely outcomes/injuries. In towns/cities you are more likely to be hit by vehicles pulling out or turning across your path because the the SMIDSY effect and that you are part of a busy and complex traffic flow. However the likelihood physical damage to you is probably reduced due to the slower speeds involved. Conversely on a rural road your probably less likely to be hit by a vehicle in this way and I'd be much more concerned from a rear shunt, the consequences of which (due to the higher speeds) are probably going to be much more serious?

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Veronese68
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby Veronese68 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:55 pm

turnerjohn wrote:
The Rookie wrote:For me vehicles from behind are the highest risk, you can rarely do much 'actively' to protect yourself, you can ride in a defensive manner, the best place on the road, you can speed up when it aids safety, but you are/should be considering that all the time, but you can do nothing ultimately from preventing a moron driving into you.

Traffic approaching rarely poses a risk to me (very little opportuinity for right turns across my path) and vehicles from junctions I can see and assess the risk of and either carry on or take preventative action (slow right down or even wave them out.

Classic the other day, white van overtook me on a narrow bridge, no room for me+him+car coming the other way, road turns sharp through 90 degrees at the other end of the bridge so he has no way of knowing he was going to get a clear overtake, I hit the brakes as a preventative measure as soon as he started the pass, he only had to wait about 5 seconds and we'd have been off the bridge, had a car come the other way I'm sure he'd have squashed me into the parapit and there would have been nothing I could do.


Hitting the brakes when anyone is behind you is about the worst thing to do..especially as cycles don't have brake lights if he'd hit you that would have been your fault.
Without doubt vehicles from front or side are the most dangerous without taking into account the greater collision speed (their speed plus yours) !

I think the van was already overtaking so it was alongside him. There is one corner on my route that drivers seem to think they can see round corners, pre-emptive braking so they don't force me into the kerb is often the safest option.
As with many above I'm generally more concerned with the idiots in front of me. I've been hit in the side by someone that didn't see me coming and I've been doored by someone that was in the right hand lane of a dual carriageway. Being able to see what was in front of me didn't help as I couldn't brake on either occasion so I ride with an Exposure light on flash even in broad daylight, both of the above were in perfect visibility.

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bails87
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby bails87 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 13:51 pm

Hitting the brakes when anyone is behind you is about the worst thing to do..especially as cycles don't have brake lights if he'd hit you that would have been your fault.


Bo11ocks! If someone drives into the back of you then they're at fault.

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goonz
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby goonz » Wed Oct 23, 2013 14:15 pm

For me the worst danger is cars coming out of side roads and turning into.

Also blind pedestrians who simply walk out into the road without a care in the world.
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edhornby
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby edhornby » Wed Oct 23, 2013 15:00 pm

the thing that really sets my internal alarm bell is the car in a side street waiting for a gap in traffic - a driver on the main road gives them a wave to let them in and they mentally switch off because 'the other guy waved so it must be safe to pull out'

mini roundabouts are my other hated road furniture, drivers either hesitate and brake when it's safe to go and others just plough through them regardless of whether it's safe or if they have right of way (and they are usually a great big blob of white paint to whip your wheels out from underneath you...)
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The Rookie
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby The Rookie » Wed Oct 23, 2013 15:05 pm

bails87 wrote:
Hitting the brakes when anyone is behind you is about the worst thing to do..especially as cycles don't have brake lights if he'd hit you that would have been your fault.


Bo11ocks! If someone drives into the back of you then they're at fault.

The Rookie: Stoneleigh?

Stoneleigh indeed, and yes I hit the brakes when he had started to pass not when he was behind me, what sort of moron would interpret what I wrote as saying that? Did you read the bit about "as soon as he started to pass"? Clearly that was not when he was behind me.

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supersonic
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby supersonic » Wed Oct 23, 2013 16:58 pm

People passing too close.

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DaxPlusPlus
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Re: Where do you preceive the danager to be

Postby DaxPlusPlus » Sun Oct 27, 2013 15:40 pm

Unthinking idiots overtaking on blind bends. My road position does nothing to slow some of these berks down.

And strangely, a lot of them give me loads of room but completely fail to think through what they're doing - driving on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend where they themselves will happily travel at 40mph+ the other way on the other side of their commute.

:roll: doesn't sum it up .. it's more :evil:
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