Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

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nath_english
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Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby nath_english » Fri Nov 01, 2013 16:20 pm

I am looking to convert my Genesis Croix de Fer from mechanical disc brakes to caliper brakes, as part of a complete strip-down/re-build.

The drilled holes in the frame look very narrow, and I am wondering what kind of caliper brake I am going to need.....long drop I assume, but I have been told you can get allen key fixing or nut-fixing brakes.......

Can anyone with more knowledge please enlighten me on what I may need?

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Monty Dog
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Monty Dog » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:06 pm

Why? Are your rims designed to work with a rim brake i.e. do they have a machined brake track? I'd suggest you fit some TRP HyRds
Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:32 pm

Bad idea... you won't find any caliper long enough for the job... then there is the rim issue... why do you want to abandon a superior braking system?

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:44 pm

The OP wants to ditch the Avids because they are far from superior!
Someone I know described them as being ok for slowing down but useless for actually stopping :shock:

Why not just put some better disc brakes on? You could even go for hydraulic ;-)
Last edited by Carbonator on Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:47 pm

Carbonator wrote:The OP wants to ditch the Avids because they are far from superior!
Someone I know described them as being more like changing speed rather than stopping.

Why not just put some better disc brakes on? You could even go for hydraulic ;-)


Disc calipers need to be set up properly, if they are not set up correctly, they don't work well. The Avid are excellent and can be improved by using some organic pads to replace the sintered ones

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:48 pm

The person works in a bike shop and is going to ditch the Avids.
If it were simply set up or brake pads I assume that would have been done.

Maybe its something to do with using drop bar levers?
I had Avids on my Boardman Hybrid and they were great.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:53 pm

Carbonator wrote:The person works in a bike shop and is going to ditch the Avids.
If it were simply set up or brake pads I assume that would have been done.


If the person works in a shop, he shouldn't need to ask how to fit calipers to a frame... :wink:
I have tried a few mechanical calipers, the BB7 MTB are the best, they are awesome, but a bit difficult to use on a road bike, yet I do use one at the rear. The road ones are a bit less good, but on pair with a good rim brake, with the advantages in winter. Organic pads make a lot of difference

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:56 pm

Its not the OP, its someone I know who has the same bike.

The OP did not say why he wants to change. I assumed it was due to poor braking as the person I know has stopped riding the bike because of the issue.

nath_english
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby nath_english » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:58 pm

I have no need for disc brakes, and want to use the Croix de Fer as a winter training bike.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 17:59 pm

Carbonator wrote:Its not the OP, its someone I know who has the same bike.


Well, someone must be right and someone must be wrong... and given I have ridden mechanical disc brakes for 4 years, I am afraid your friend who works in a shop is either expecting too much (they are not the brakes of a Ducati, admittedly) or he has not set them up properly.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:01 pm

nath_english wrote:I have no need for disc brakes, and want to use the Croix de Fer as a winter training bike.


Well, the bad news is, you can't use calipers, the drop is too long. However, there are systems that allow you to fit calipers on the frame/forks by clamping them... Minura/Migura, something Japanese, can't remember. You are still left with non machined rims though...

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:05 pm

ugo.santalucia wrote:
Carbonator wrote:Its not the OP, its someone I know who has the same bike.


Well, someone must be right and someone must be wrong... and given I have ridden mechanical disc brakes for 4 years, I am afraid your friend who works in a shop is either expecting too much (they are not the brakes of a Ducati, admittedly) or he has not set them up properly.


I feel the same way to be honest. I might try to have a go on the bike to check it out.
My cross bike has Shimano mechanical discs and they feel a bit like my road bike. Not sure I would want hydraulic (more powerful brakes) on a road bike anyway (unless they are throttled back a bit).

Apparently the Avids are not as good as Shimano's on a cross bike. If that were the case I can imagine them being a bit pants as the Shimano's only just about cut it compared to my Dura Ace.

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:07 pm

Carbonator wrote:
ugo.santalucia wrote:
Carbonator wrote:Its not the OP, its someone I know who has the same bike.


Well, someone must be right and someone must be wrong... and given I have ridden mechanical disc brakes for 4 years, I am afraid your friend who works in a shop is either expecting too much (they are not the brakes of a Ducati, admittedly) or he has not set them up properly.


I feel the same way to be honest. I might try to have a go on the bike to check it out.
My cross bike has Shimano mechanical discs and they feel a bit like my road bike. Not sure I would want hydraulic (more powerful brakes) on a road bike anyway (unless they are throttled back a bit).


I also had the Shimano R505 disc calipers and those were not very good... or maybe I did not set them up correctly.
I have the BB7 MTB at the rear and when I'm on CX tyres on the tarmac I lock the wheel all the time

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:08 pm

nath_english wrote:I have no need for disc brakes, and want to use the Croix de Fer as a winter training bike.


So why the need to change? What are you gaining?

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:10 pm

I think hydraulic is the way to go. just for the better modulation.

Hydraulic disc on cross and hydraulic rim on road ;-)

Bluetooth Di2 to 100% get rid of wires would be good too :D

nath_english
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby nath_english » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:17 pm

I will of course be using a separate set of wheels, I realise that wheels set up to take disc brakes are not machined

I want my winter bike setup similar to my summer bike, simple as that.

Mechanical disc brakes are only a little better than good caliper breaks, and certainly not needed on the road

I have seen that you can get brake calipers with a 73 mm drop, would this not be enough?




May just need to take it to a shop and ask, though would feel a little cheeky asking a shop to check things for me, simply to then go home and do the work myself

Carbonator
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby Carbonator » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:21 pm

Some wheels are both disc and rim.
Think my Crossrides are both.
Sounds a lot of hassle to me and better to just get a winter road bike.

I thought the advantage of disc was that they work better in the wet/gunge, and do not just grind away at the rims.
Being better able to stop on a wet commute would seem to me that there is a need for them on the road :wink:

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ugo.santalucia
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby ugo.santalucia » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:38 pm

nath_english wrote:I have seen that you can get brake calipers with a 73 mm drop, would this not be enough?


Suspect not... besides, the longer the drop, the crapper the brake, so you'll end up with a nice downgrade

nath_english
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby nath_english » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:48 pm

Irrespective of people's opinion on whether discs are better or not, I'm after a bit of advice as to what size callipers I'd need.

Wiggle customer care say a 57mm set would be fine, but I'm not convinced. I've seen Tektro do them up to 73mm.
The shop that built up my other bike said 53mm would probably fit.

Are any of the posters on this thread owners (past, current or present) of a Croix de Fer? As that would be really useful!

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thegibdog
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Re: Caliper brakes on a Genesis Croix de Fer

Postby thegibdog » Fri Nov 01, 2013 18:50 pm

Carbonator wrote:I thought the advantage of disc was that they work better in the wet/gunge, and do not just grind away at the rims.
Being better able to stop on a wet commute would seem to me that there is a need for them on the road :wink:

This is what I was thinking. Why switch to brakes that are very likely to give worse stopping performance AND wear away your rims?

Mechanical discs may only be slightly better than standard road brakes but super deep drop calipers will be significantly worse than standard calipers. Especially if they're cheap Tektro calipers.

Re how much drop you need, why not measure it?


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