Depression and Doping

Talk about competitive road cycling in all its forms
NervexProf
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Depression and Doping

Postby NervexProf » Thu Jan 23, 2014 17:52 pm

I found this article in the Guardian interesting and revealing.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/100-to ... ion-doping

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RichN95
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby RichN95 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 18:07 pm

And written by one of the most high profile purveyors of unsubstantiated gossip on twitter. The hypocracy of some people is staggering.
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Richmond Racer
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Richmond Racer » Thu Jan 23, 2014 18:15 pm

RichN95 wrote:And written by one of the most high profile purveyors of unsubstantiated gossip on twitter. The hypocracy of some people is staggering.



F8&king unbelievable

EDIT: I've just wigged out on the Twatter about it

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Yellow Peril
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Yellow Peril » Thu Jan 23, 2014 18:33 pm

I'm surprised that they published such a "technical" article. You've got to understand cycling speak and know who people are to follow it properly. Not aimed at the casual reader.

EDIT: I'm not on twitter, should I sign up?

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RichN95
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby RichN95 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 18:41 pm

Yellow Peril wrote:EDIT: I'm not on twitter, should I sign up?

If you're not on it by now then you're probably not missing much.
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iainf72
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby iainf72 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 19:03 pm

Groan.....
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.

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No tA Doctor
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby No tA Doctor » Thu Jan 23, 2014 20:25 pm

It's like a very long Festinagirl tweet, really. Lots of conjecture, backed by a fairly thin "well it seems to make sense" rationale. Is cycling any different from any other elite sport? Plenty of footballers have gone on to drug abuse, addiction, alcoholism and suicide, for instance. And plenty of people that drive buses, do accounts, serve in shops etc. have done the same.

A few factual innacuracies as well: what, exactly, is the bigger and better thing that Obree has gone on to after his depression? I'm glad he's dealt with it, I like him a lot (see my signature), but professionally I don't think he's topped beating the hour record twice. "Forfra" only means "from the front" literally - in Danish it means "start again" or "take it from the top". Blunt statement of who has produced the highest power ever (Contador, apparently, Riis second) - based on....? Oh, that'll be Vayer I imagine.
“Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

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rayjay
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby rayjay » Thu Jan 23, 2014 20:36 pm

I had a job working in a crisp factory for a bit,,,that was f%%king depressing

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jimmythecuckoo
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby jimmythecuckoo » Thu Jan 23, 2014 20:37 pm

Despite the good and bad elements to the article, there clearly is an issue.

Question is whether cycling causes depression or whether depressed people are attracted to cycling.

Truth is probably a bit of both.
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Blazing Saddles
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Blazing Saddles » Thu Jan 23, 2014 20:50 pm

Cycling, when it's on it's winter break, causes depression.
"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.

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mr_poll
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby mr_poll » Thu Jan 23, 2014 20:57 pm

Oh the irony - the comments about Santa and his suicide tweet and the cruel responses on Twitter and forums - from someone who was happy to muck rake and make all kinds of accusations on twitter, wonder if she gave Wiggins' demons any thought as she laid into his transformation from track to yellow jersey.

Forgetting who wrote it for a minute, which is hard with the snide comments about marginal gains etc

The annoying thing about an article like this is that it is a pure opinion piece that could have been better researched and linked to actual evidence. I am not saying her assertions are wrong but within the first few paragraphs she asserts that there is strong evidence that there is a link between forms of doping and depression, but doesn't reference anything. Later she links us to a study by Patten, which in its conclusion says that the study doesn't show causal influence.
Last edited by mr_poll on Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RichN95
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby RichN95 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:07 pm

The thing with writing about depression is that unless you are a mental health professional or writing from experience then you would be well advised to steer clear of the subject. There's enough misinformation on the subject as it is without adding half-baked theories and 100 year old stories to the pile.
Last edited by RichN95 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Above The Cows
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Above The Cows » Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:13 pm

Yellow Peril wrote:EDIT: I'm not on twitter, should I sign up?


Only if you want to look at pictures of cats.
Correlation is not causation.

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Above The Cows
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Above The Cows » Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:14 pm

RichN95 wrote:The thing with writing about depression is that unless you are a mental health profession or writing for experience then you would be well advised to steer clear of the subject. There's enough misinformation on the subject as it is without adding half-baked theories and 100 year old stories to the pile.


^This x1000
Correlation is not causation.

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BillyMansell
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby BillyMansell » Thu Jan 23, 2014 21:24 pm

jimmythecuckoo wrote:Despite the good and bad elements to the article, there clearly is an issue.

Question is whether cycling causes depression or whether depressed people are attracted to cycling.

Truth is probably a bit of both.

As has already been mentioned there are people with depression in all walks of life, cycling is not a special case. Throw in the pressure on those who perform at the top of their game (in whichever field) whilst facing continual criticism and most people would struggle to maintain good mental health in such a situation.

A simple test would be to perform a diagnostic test for depression on all professional cyclists rather than just citing cases that fit a preconceived opinion. You could the compare them to national and global figures fo depression to see whether cycling is as bad for mental health as the author thinks.

I found the reference to research baffling as it has no real relevance to the point they are trying to make but I suspect they've thrown it in to try and give some legitimacy to their viewpoint.

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Joelsim
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby Joelsim » Thu Jan 23, 2014 23:37 pm

I think that article says it all really.

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RichN95
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby RichN95 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 01:02 am

Joelsim wrote:I think that article says it all really.
Chapeau.

It really doesn't. It's repugnant bullsh1t. It seeks to draw a direct correlation between doping and depression. If the former leads to the latter, then maybe we can assume the the latter is an indication of the former.

It stigmatises depression as a symptom of doping, rather than an affliction suffered by many.

The writer is someone with a track record of doping gossip mongering and now, with this article, she has invited us to compare riders who admit depression with know dopers such as Pantani and Vandenbrocke. The resulting nudges and winks from the self-appointed guardians of the sport may discourage those that need help from asking for it.
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mfin
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby mfin » Fri Jan 24, 2014 01:26 am

RichN95 wrote:The thing with writing about depression is that unless you are a mental health professional or writing from experience then you would be well advised to steer clear of the subject. There's enough misinformation on the subject as it is without adding half-baked theories and 100 year old stories to the pile.


This is dead on Rich.
.

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jerry3571
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby jerry3571 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 08:09 am

They say that exercising outside gives almost the same benefit as using a drug like Prozac so people who are a more depressive type may use this type of exercise as a subconscious aid to their problems. If they are good at the Sport they may progress to the top. I am rubbish when I'm not riding.
I take a steroid nasal spray and inhaler and have problems with sores around my mouth and the Doc says it could easily be a side effect of using steroids. The junk that Pro Cyclists use and have used must have some serious side effects and I have wondered how these riders function as I get all sorts of side effects from different Prescription drugs. Inhalers also gives me the shakes for starters.
Also being well known and the adulation of fans, to then go to a non de script, anonymous retirement must bring it's problems. It's tricky if that ending comes from being banned and thrown out in disgrace. I guess a retired ex doper may feel as though they were playing the game by doping and why should they be made a scapegoat for the sport.
I knew someone who was a small time pro in France and he hated it. The Manager was like a dictator and he was constantly on the limit and always told he was too fat. One instance, this guy was in a break in a race where the sponsor had turned up. The break was caught and this rider was dropped by the main peloton and the Manager berated this guy for getting dropped in front of the Sponsor.

Being a bike rider isn't all glamour for sure and it's a hard life.

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ddraver
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Re: Depression and Doping

Postby ddraver » Fri Jan 24, 2014 08:47 am

Did you notice that she couldnt write an article without getting at least one sly dig in at DB and Sky. The hypocrocy of that woman really does know no bounds...

I like kindles and everything but one of their major drawbacks of ebooks is that any numbskull can get anything published now...
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