Specialized elite headset issue

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PuttyKnees
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Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:00 pm

I have a 2nd hand 2006 Specialized Allez Elite and recently the headset started playing up. When I took a look I found to my surprise that there was no lower cartridge bearing. I sourced a replacement using the cane creek sizer and tried to fit it and found that it wouldn't seat properly. When I looked closely inside I found a band. So has the previous owner when replacing their forks done something odd to fit them? Or is this supposed to what it looks like? And what should I do to properly fit my headset!

Inside the lower part of the steerer tube
photo 1 (2).JPG


Lower cartridge protruding out of the lower steerer tube
photo (7).JPG

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wishitwasallflat
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby wishitwasallflat » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:38 pm

These Spesh bikes start life with a Mindset Headset OEM which doesn't use cartridge bearings. You need to knock out the black Mindset races before you can fit a cartridge bearings headset. Search on here its been discussed several times before as it's a common issue. It's pretty easy to remove the cups and some have DIYed it without the dedicated remover tool but I got a Spesh Concept Store to do mine.

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Thu Feb 13, 2014 20:50 pm

That's awesome - thank you.

mattv
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby mattv » Fri Feb 14, 2014 07:30 am

It'll probably be a 41mm bearing. I know some places sell them £15 the pair. That piece needs knocking out, it could be quite tight....

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Fri Feb 14, 2014 14:06 pm

I tried knocking it out last night with a drift, but it wouldn't budge. There's a local Specialized concept store nearby and they've said they'd take a look at it at a reasonable price, so hopefully that will work. If not, not sure what I will do.

mattv
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby mattv » Fri Feb 14, 2014 15:42 pm

They do come out but it's fiddly. The lip is almost flush with the frame.... Trick is to use the correct headset remover tool but wedge a socket into the splayed end to lock it onto the very small lip.

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wishitwasallflat
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby wishitwasallflat » Fri Feb 14, 2014 18:41 pm

They do come out I watched the mechanic at my Spesh Concept Store and he used the Park Tool Remover tool and whacked it a good few times with a metal hammer! Scary to watch and I'm glad it was him and not me!!!

kiwimatt
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby kiwimatt » Sat Feb 15, 2014 12:23 pm

Medium sized screwdriver to catch the lip of the race and a rubber mallet. Tappy tap tap round and round in small increments will ease it out. Might need a whack or two :) Did both top and bottom of mine this way no issues. Alu headtube.

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Mon Feb 17, 2014 19:30 pm

I took the easy way out and dropped it in to the specialized store. Apparently a 15 minute job and a tenner. I must admit I was convinced it would never come out using various drifts, but glad to have been in error! Thanks all for the advice.

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wishitwasallflat
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby wishitwasallflat » Mon Feb 17, 2014 19:49 pm

PuttyKnees wrote:I took the easy way out and dropped it in to the specialized store. Apparently a 15 minute job and a tenner. I must admit I was convinced it would never come out using various drifts, but glad to have been in error! Thanks all for the advice.


Glad to hear it and the fact it's so easy and quick for these Spesh mechanics shows how routine it is for them and hence what a piece of nonsense fitting these Mindsets is. I asked the mechanic who did mine why they do and he said it's cheap but then looked guilty over his shoulder to see if anyone had heard him!

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Mon Feb 17, 2014 23:58 pm

Not quite finished. So the upper cartridge fits ok, but sits too low in the head tube for the cap to fit and apply load. I guess I bought the wrong size upper bearing (thanks cane creek!)? Is there a bodge for this?

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wishitwasallflat
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby wishitwasallflat » Tue Feb 18, 2014 09:35 am

You may need one or two headset spacers they come in 0.25 and 0.5 mm there was a recent thread where people spoke about where to get them but I can't remember the title.

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:51 am

I think you mean this one viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12958455&p=18737105&hilit=headset+spacer#p18737105

How annoying is this? I can't believe how difficult it is!

Right, let me get this straight in my head, and then I can just get something made up in our workshop.

The top bearing sits too low on in the headtube and so there is a few mm space between the cartridge and the top of the head tube. The top of the cartridge is supposed to fit flush with the top of the headtube. The top cap with its "cup" then goes on top, with the "cup" sitting in between the cartridge and the steerer (I know it's not really a cup, but kind of looks like one). The cartridge should sit in contact with the top cap so that when I put the preload on, it all compresses together - at the moment there is a big gap and no compression. So I need a shim that sits between the cartridge and the top cap, and its dimensions should be the same ID and OD of the cartridge, and a depth equal to the current difference between the top of the cartridge and the top of the heat tube?

Have I got that right?

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wishitwasallflat
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby wishitwasallflat » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:26 pm

That is the thread I was thinking of but sorry your text is a bit too complicated for me to follow and visualise.

Basically the headset shims just sit on top of the upper surface of the cartridge bearing so the top cap doesn't rub on the upper surface of the head tube. Essentially makes the bearing a little taller.

PuttyKnees
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:57 pm

OK, that makes sense, thanks. A more general question I guess - I noticed that steerer tube is a bit narrower than the ID of the cartridge, so there is a bit of play there. Is that usual?

e: Refinement of my question: The compression ring is connected to the seal, so if I place shims above the cartridge, won't I have a problem that my compression ring won't intersect with the cartridge bearing?

kiwimatt
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby kiwimatt » Tue Feb 18, 2014 14:00 pm

This is the thread you need
viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12922394

And the picture on this one
viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=12869871&p=17797181&hilit=allez+headset#p17797181

No need for shims just headset spacer on top of the cartridge. On your question on the compression ring looking from the bottom up should go like this:

Stem
More spacers
Top cap
Headset Spacer
Compression ring
Cartridge bearing

Mines given me no issues 12 months later (bottom bearing is toast but thats grotty weather related!). Hope that all makes sense

PuttyKnees
Posts: 302
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Re: Specialized elite headset issue

Postby PuttyKnees » Tue Feb 18, 2014 19:19 pm

Awesome, that really helped. I also found that the compression ring detached so that was fine. Cobbled it all together with a few shims (will get something better made up) and now seems to work fine. I have a bike again! Thanks for all the help. Bike maintenance has a habit of showing you how much you don't know about something quite simple.


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