Based on my experience of commuting in London, the overwhelming majority of lorry drivers are actually pretty competent; it might be more productive to find a way of educating the cyclists. Almost every day I see a left-turning lorry marooned in the middle of a junction while a steady stream of cyclists ride down the inside and then straight over the junction.

i don't think the solution is to advocate a ban of lorries using commuting routes. perhaps a better idea would be to enforce the use of special wing mirrors that allowed the lorry drivers to see cyclists on their inside.

Absolutely agree with That guy on the Brompton – cyclists who know better DON’T go up the inside of lorries unless you’re absolutely 100% sure it’s safe to do so. Even then I rarely do. Of course the haulage industry can/needs to do more but having seen some of the fair-weather cycling on offer on London’s streets this week since spring has arrived, I’d say a not insignificant percentage of commuters need a bit of educating as well…

Let's go a stage further and make it illegal for cyclists to ride up the inside of left turning traffic at a junction, regardless of whether or not they plan to turn left or continue straight ahead. I never do this when I am cycling in traffic: as car driver as well as a cyclist I understand how nervous this kind of cycling makes other road users - it's just not defencible in any way to me.

deej

@deejay....

unfortunately, cycle lanes run right up the left to junctions and actively encourage cyclists to filter up the inside.

I agree with deejay.

With ASL's at the front of a majority of crossings in london, and the only way to get to them in the law's eye is by going up the filter lane on the left. If the lights change as you are in the lane or if the ASL is full because a car/vehicle/motor bike is using it then your left in the open for someone to cut across you.

Remove the filter lanes at lights and fine people for stopping in ASL's!!!!

As a cyclist commuting in a different city, I'm always flabaghasted at the number of cyclists who undertake at junctions when you're signalling left when in the Capital. The last time driving in london I could easily have added to the fatality stats if I didn't have my wits about me- and that's in a car, not a Lorry where visibility of cyclists is obviously more of an issue.

I cannot comment on the fatalities in the article, but I'm afraid that HGV drivers will probably get the rap for this and be banned in peak hours, but as a cyclist I think it's Londons proliferation of ignorant, stupid & arrogant cyclists of which there are far too many that are actually the cause of issue here. What is it with London cyclists???

The reason that cyclists in London undertake is becuase they are allowed to at most junctions - that is what the bike lanes and early stop sections are for!

The problem is the lorries that take up the majority of the marked off areas and pay no attention to the bike lanes - as a result illegally operating and as a result should avoid areas and times when Bike lanes need to be used!

Echo 'That Guy on the Brompton' and deejay. It's idiotic to undertake anything and if you must insist on doing it (and, yes, I am guilty of this myself sometimes) then you must expect the worst and doing it anywhere there is a possibility of the vehicle turning left across you or squeezing you into a barrier is just crazy.

Enduro247 - cyclists are NOT "allowed to [undertake] at most junctions". You may filter if there is a separate lane but absolutely not otherwise. It is illegal to filter on the kerb side. I do agree with you, though, that it is really aggravating when cars/lorries/scooters/motorbike use the cycle lanes and boxes at junctions. I ride a motorbike too myself and I still think that the police should hand out way more fines for doing that.

As usual in these situations it's a case of everyone treating everyone else with a bit of respect and behaving sensibly.

Have to say that the figure that 70% of vehicles checked were defective is a pretty scary statistic. Would be interesting know what that means in practice

I cycled to London a few times when I worked there. Never gain! It was a hell of a lot more dangerous than hurtling full pelt down some pretty challenging DH sections! I nearly got killed 3 or 4 times on one journey where the DH only nearly killed me once :-) Cycling in London?! IMO it's only for cycle couriers & complete nutters!!!

Once again, the best (and therefore most expensive, slowest effect, least measurable, etc.) solution is education.

Sometimes I filter left, sometimes I filter right. It depends on the situation. The fact that I am an educated cyclist (by which I mean cycling since an early age, passed a proficiency test as a child, years of exp., etc.) means I am able to recognise the situation and apply the appropriate action. One thing I always do is cover the brakes!

Similarly and additionally, as an experienced driver I'm usually able to interact with cyclists pretty well too.

My girlfriend started cycling to work a year or so ago, and we're still working on getting her to ride with the right mix of assertiveness & defensiveness... she's a trooper though!

What on earth are the Government trying to do, are they actually trying to de-populate our country by encouraging people to cycle in a dangerous city like London, so that they get killed? This may be a bit of a far out thought, however this is what it looks like to me.

They are constantly encouraging people to cycle, yet they are not enforcing strong enough sentences and deterrents to drivers. The majority of drivers that kill cyclists get away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist, however if they put the word out that every driver that kills a cyclist will face the death sentence, i bet you a lot more drivers would sit up and take notice and make sure they steer well clear and slow down when they drive past a cyclist.

More needs to be done about this, and sooner rather than later.

Cycling is a superb method of keeping fit and being greener to the environment, if only the mechanical monsters that we have developed over the years could be decommissioned, this world would be a much better place.

I've commuted by bike in London for over five years and would agree with what many other people have already said. If you don't undertake trucks at junctions where they could conceivably turn left you are highly unlikely to be hit by them.

Of course it is probably possible to find examples of trucks overtaking a cyclist and then turning left but these are likely to exceptions.

Cycling in London is NOT overly dangerous if you are sensible; unfortunately when people first start out commuting they don't always know what is sensible and what is downright dangerous and instead learn through experience and near misses early on.

Maybe enforcing the no mobile phone LAW when at the wheel that many many car and drivers lorry drivers flout on a daily basis.

Check the reality meter - hmmm are its batteries flat???

Effectively shifting the rush-hour, for what? It makes no sense to penalise the businesses that many cyclists work for/own/rely on by squeezing vital transport out of potentially productive hours of the day.

Cyclists, if that group exists, are not victims needing special treatment. Cyclists are "the traffic".

No doubt there are as many semi-clueless motorists out there as there are cyclists and no, they don't need special treatment either.

It would be interesting to see the results of a similar exercise carried out on bikes. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it turned up 70% as defective.

"Based on my experience of commuting in London, the overwhelming majority of lorry drivers are actually pretty competent; it might be more productive to find a way of educating the cyclists. Almost every day I see a left-turning lorry marooned in the middle of a junction while a steady stream of cyclists ride down the inside and then straight over the junction."

I commute in and around Johannesburg (LOTS of rail, staidum's and roadworks going on here) and have a solution for this problem....we use it hear often as the minibus taxi's generally drive without ANY regard for ANYONE (even the Fuzz) and they OFTEN just pull off anywhere to pick up and drop off commuters (and i really mean ANYWHERE!) so we often go around them on the right....a quick look back to make sure no one is coming through, a signal and your past! it works at traffic lights too, if someone has signaled to turn left at a light just come around on the right....it respectfully let's them turn and you can get on with it and return to the left swiftly....CYCLISTS should also respect other road users....it (respect) is a two way street, you gotta give some to get some...and a smile every now and then helps too!

Sorry, crouching monkey, but it ain't ilegal to filter up inside. Otherwise the Highway Code wouldn't say:

"On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left."

I've been commuting on a bike for nearly 10 years (probably covered 10s of thousands of miles on a bike on the roads) since first starting when I was 16 to cycle to college and back every day. I've been hit once by a car and it wasn't my fault, the car overtook me far too narrow and their wing mirror hit my elbow! Luckily I was fine, the car didn't stop though!!!

Its the cyclicsts that need educating. They do stupid things all the time, I've seen so many near misses its untrue! To get a driving license these days requires loads of tuition regarding cyclists, horses, slow vehicle etc... Drivers know what they are doing, bikers don't, there's no license for a bike, anyone with no brains or common sense can get on one and potentially cause a serious accident; educate the un-educated road user before giving extra training to the educated road user

Mike Healey:

I said "It is illegal to filter on the kerb side." - which is the left in the UK.

Please read other people's posts properly if you want to pick an argument.

Mike

I mist apologise. Looks like I I should take my own advice. Just read your post again and I must apologise since I mis-read your "ilegal" [sic] as 'legal'.

I believe that the law states there are three situations where you may pass on the left:

1. In a one-way street.

2. When the vehicle being overtaking is signalling to turn right.

3. When the traffic is moving slowly in lanes and the right lane is moving more slowly than the left lane.

Don't forget that the Highway code is not the law. It is 'guidelines' for road use (which IMHO isn't very helpful!). I believe that the section you quote from refers, rather vaguely, to moving traffic but I guess it's hard to tell.

I think I recall reading advice in the highway code against point '2', above, as well. Frankly I feel like it's all a mess of uncertainty with regards to what is allowed and what is just 'suggested' - I wish they'd sort it out.

....obviously I mean "must apologise" :-)

@crouchingmonkey, the section of the highway code you quote is for motor vehicles, and there's an additional section concerning bikes (which Mike Healey quotes) implying that cycles can filter up the left of traffic.

Supporting that is my understanding that, strictly speaking, you can only enter an ASL from the left unless otherwise indicated (that is, you can't filter up the outside of traffic and enter the ASL).

rml380z

It's a good point - however, my understanding is that this is also the law (not just in the highway code) and, as such, will apply to all road users. I'm also fairly sure that the Highway Code does not constitute the law and is only a set of guide lines.

Can I be clear that I am not saying that where there is a cycle lane you cannot pass on the left. In my first post I said "You may filter if there is a separate lane but absolutely not otherwise" and by "separate lane" I meant to refer to cycle lanes.

My point is that I'm still under the belief that passing on the left (between traffic and the kerb) is against the law. This is what is taught in the motorcycle exam and I believe that this applies to all road users and not just motor powered ones. I'm happy to be proved wrong on this but, even if I am wrong, I can't understand why some cyclists insist on doing it. It's really dangerous and is the root cause of most cycling deaths in London (possibly even the country?)

Importantly the discussion on this forum seems to highlight the fact that, despite a fair amount of Googling, I can't find the actual road traffic laws and much of the Highway Code contains phrases like "should" and "should not" it seems to me that what we, as cyclists, MUST and MUST NOT do is unclear :-(

Ultimately - I'm afraid that I believe that, in general, it is cyclists that need more education (though it'd be nice if trucks didn't drive so close sometimes :-).