Speed has been mentioned a few times here, BUT legal limits do not apply to human propelled machines.

Cyclists are not legally forced to use speedos, so do not know how fast they are going.

My post is dated

Sat 24 Oct, 9:57 am

Yet the publish date for article is

Sat 24 Oct, 10:23 am BST

That can't be right?

These MP's are totally out of touch with reality,can you Imangine the public response if they witnessed Police Officers manning a speed trap for cyclists.

The absolute ignorance of MP David Curry is incredible. Sounds more like the rantings of a man with a personal vendetta, rather than an objective debate.

Anti-social road users? Yeah, go after them hard! And let the punishment fit the potential for damage and death. i.e. the bigger the vehicle, the more we should be worried about the pilot's attitude. I have never felt threatened by a scooterist while driving - only worried for their own safety if they're driving erratically. But as a cyclist or motorcyclist, I have felt threatened by cars, vans, taxis, lorries.... should we tar everyone with the same brush?

I would be able to side with David Curry (MP), if his comment read:

‘Why are *a very small minority of* cyclists such irresponsible and arrogant road users?’

But, by leaving that section out of his statement, he is peddling(!) nothing more than cycling racism.

In the last 2 days, I have had 3 people try to force me off my bike.

1st was a car driver that thought it would be funny to veer towards me as I rode down the hill towards him. I could see the smile on his face.

The same journey, a woman (with kids in her car) pulled across the road, right in front of me, into her driveway. Had she completed this maneouvere, it would have been fine. But, she froze in my path. I stopped 5ins from the window her child was looking out of.

And last night, a youth (with his friends) thought it would be funny to play chicken and jump into my path and shout at me whilst waving his arms.

And I, the cyclist, am the one being targeted by the Govt.?

Oh deary me. Shock, horror ignorance alive and well in the house of commons.

wish they put the time and energy going after irresponsible drivers as they do cyclists, no excuse for poor bike riding but would make things a lot safer for everyone.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/david_curry/skipton_and_ripon

>>wish they put the time and energy going after irresponsible drivers as they do cyclists, no excuse for poor bike riding but would make things a lot safer for everyone.

+1 to this. I'd like to see errant cyclists get taken to task more often, and the fact that drivers are a far bigger hazard is not a reason to let it go, but a bit of objectivity wouldn't go amiss here. Resorting to anecdotes shows it's gone out the window here unfortunately.

http://www.davidcurry.co.uk/ - send him a message about your experiences on the bike - especially if you're a constituent or commute through the area

;-)

We need to beware of this. Anyone who has had much to do with motorcycling will know that this sort of nonsense will almost inevitably triumph over commonsense or opinion based on facts. No reason why cycling should be any different as far as Govt is concerned.

It's good to see Ms Smith, my local MP, supporting me as my son and I got knocked off our bikes in Morecambe today because the driver 'didn't see us'.

Attitudes such as those expressed in this worthless report simply reflect the essentially right-wing, authoritarian, anti-cyclist bias that is rife in Britain. Such calls for 'crackdowns' on cyclists overlooks the fact that the police and armies of Community Support Officers already target cyclists for 'offences' such as cycling on a footway, usually ignoring the Home Office's guidance on the use of Fixed Penalty Notices when doing so. (These state only cyclists riding without consideration for pedestrians should be ticketed, not every cyclist using a footway, as is usually done). Meanwhile the police have taken it on themselves to effectively decriminalise criminal driving behaviours, with fewer people now being prosecuted for dangerous driving than in the early 1960's! Perhaps worst of all, a cyclist who is run down by an errant driver is unlikely to see the police take any interest even when there are independent witnesses and the cyclist was seriously injured as a result.

The law is supposed to be applied without 'favour or prejudice'. Given that collisions involving a cyclist result in the death of around 2-3 people per year, and the number of deaths associated with motor vehicle use run at around 3,000, the police should clearly be allocating their resources between enforcing traffic laws as they affect drivers and cycling offences at a ratio of around 1000:1. In some forces it appears that senior officers feel that a 50:50 allocation of resources is about the right balance. Still, I guess that it keeps the ‘Daily Mail Readers’ happy, and the police (like the 'Government') clearly believe that their primary role is to pander to such people. (Whilst, off course, taking a ‘softly softly’ approach to the enforcement of traffic law so as to not ‘alienate’ the average motoring criminal).

BOYDIE wrote:

'These MP's are totally out of touch with reality,can you Imangine the public response if they witnessed Police Officers manning a speed trap for cyclists.'

I have a feeling many of them, taking time off from moaning about 'asylum seekers', so-called 'Rip-off Britain' and single mothers would love it! See the story below:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1195870/Nine-police-officers-swoop-speeding-seafront-cyclist.html

Quote: ‘Seafront development officer Charmaine Andrews said the council was keen to encourage cyclists to use the seafront but warned they must do so responsibly.

'We received a large number of positive comments regarding this safety initiative and hope that it has raised awareness among cyclists of the dangers of speeding along the seafront, both to themselves and pedestrians,' she said.’

Odd thing is that while the police, local authorities and so on seem to think that an appropriate speed for motorists in a built-up area is anything up to 35 Mp, (or 10% plus another 2 Mph over the already lethally high legal limit), when it comes to cyclists anything above 10 Mph is regarded as ‘irresponsible’ and potentially lethal. This is despite the fact that a bike weighs about 10-15 kg, as opposed the 1000 to 2000 kg plus of a motor vehicle! What's more places like Bournemouth’s prom are a lot wider than the average traffic lane!

David Curry is my MP. He obviously seems out of touch with what it's like to cycle on a road. I do believe he's standing down at the next election, what a shame.

Now that the Daily Mail gets into trouble for criticising gay pop stars, can't blame rape victims for dressing up provocatively, can't even criticise people for not being white, people on bicycles are one of the minorities they can still persecute.

In a way, its a measure of success: we weren't significant enough for them to despite. In a way, it's sad. When you read a press article about anyone involved in a collision with a lorry, they always say whether or not they had a helmet on, as if that will help you when an HGV decides to forget you are there. The way the BBC presented the parliament article was just as bad as the daily mail though -focus on the cycling issue, even if the report clearly said "perceived" cycling/pedestrian conflict, as there was no data to back up their prejudices. I complained to the BBC through their web site.

PS: Bristol Traffic coverage:

http://bristolcars.blogspot.com/2009/10/bbc-gets-on-message-bicycles-are.html

Any Europeans like to send some messages to our Press and MPs about their experiences cycling here in the UK? I'm sure they'd love to hear how you were treated in comparison to your home Country.

I mean, I have heard Germans, French, Philipino and Indian guys all comment that UK drivers can be a "disgrace." These are just the people I have met, I'm sure we're a laughing stock with many Europeans.

heres a petition to the government to get the 3 feet to pass rule enforced within the UK, 500 signatures are needed to get the government to reply so please sign up, it only takes a few seconds!!

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/3feet2Pass/

David Curry looks like he could with doing some cycling. He's not the fittest or healthiest looking chap. An ignorant Yorkshireman.

Now have over 500 signatures at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/3feet2Pass/

Sounds like a great idea, even from me another ignorant Yorkshireman. I'm in the Commons on Tuesday seeing another MP, I'll see if I can track him down (or should that be mow him down) and have a word.

I commute by bike regularly in London and see bad behaviour by cyclists every day. Rules of the road still apply to cyclists. Why do cyclists jump lights, go down one ways the wrong way, harrass pedestrians, cut up cars? It happens all the time.

I think these cyclists should be punished.

One reason why cyclists jump red lights is so that they are not mown down in the 'Traffic light GP' or crushed to death by lorry drivers who turn left without checking there is a cyclist waiting at the lights on their nearside. In fact research conducted by Transport for London concluded that proportionately more female than male cyclists are killed on London's road because they stop at lights more than male cyclists.

'Punishment' is all well and good as long as it is proportional and reflects the risks actually posed to others. Given the number of people killed by car drivers every day and the endemic level of law-breaking amongst car drivers, especially in relation to speeding, mobile phone use and driving without due care, it is clear that any 'zero tolerance' approach to policing needs to primarily target motor vehicle users. Of course, in the quasi-fascist state that Britain is rapidly becoming that isn't going to happen and instead all those held to stand outside the dominant 'norms' of society - such as not being a user of a motor vehicle - will be increasingly victimised.

In 3.5yrs commuting by bike in London, I've seen a number of accidents caused by pedestrians, none by cyclists. Why is it that this never gets raised? Spot fines for jay walkers please! The government needs the money in these harsh times...

David Curry is my MP.

He is not a Yorkshire man he was born in Burton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Curry)

How many accidents are there in his constituency caused by cyclists?

How many people are afraid when cycling in his constituency when overtaken by wagons that don't stick to the 40mph limit in his constituency on A roads?

A59, A65, A682 are some of the most dangerous roads in the UK and are in his constituency, are cyclists a danger on these roads?

He is just another London MP, bothered about some cyclists running red lights in London.

Look an irresponsible and arrogent cylist in town. Get a life!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/camerarepublic/4001965943/sizes/l/

Meant those whinging MPs sorry not to make my self clear, just they have really got my goat.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of maniacs on bicycles!! There are plenty of maniacs using every other form of transport!!

Forgive me if this isnt accurate (i'm not a politician so can state that it might not be true!!)

Thing is the government have to keep this blame culture going.....

Speed kills etc - I believe statistics show speeding is normally a secondary factor of a large proportion of speed related accidents, ie, changing the cd whilst speeding the driver is more likely to have crashed as a result of changing the cd rather than speeding alone.

Somethings got to be at fault rather than their policies!!

I think that all drivers should be trained better........... I watched a program where damon hill was drifting a ferrari out from a car park onto the road eating a sandwhich and making a call on his mobile, he didnt seem out of control!!

I know not everyone has his skill / ability, but if they were better trained they could get the basic driving part sorted surely??

Alas it wont happen as it costs money to train everyone, oh and its not the drivers fault anyway!!

Quote: 'I believe statistics show speeding is normally a secondary factor of a large proportion of speed related accidents'.

Not this old chestnut! In the Stats 19 forms 'excessive speed is generally only recorded as being a factor when the driver was travelling at an excessive speed for the conditions AND the driver was also exceeding the legal limit. Hence in many cases where the driver was travelling at an excessive speed for the conditions, but was not 'speeding' (as in exceeding the legal limit) the resultant crash will not have 'excessive speed' recorded as being a factor. By this logic if the limit were raised to 200 Mph, ‘excessive speed’ would never be recorded as being a cause of any crash! Even given the way the Stats 19 forms under-record the significance of speed in crash causation, in one third of all fatal crashes it is a recorded factor.

In addition, it is disingenuous to always blame 'other factors' when speed plays such an intimate role in most crash situations. A wet road might be a factor in a crash, but maybe only if the driver is travelling too fast for the conditions. In such cases it is nonsensical to focus only on how wet the road was. Sure, the driver might not have crashed if the road was dry, but they might well not have crashed even in the wet if they had been driving more slowly!

The bottom line is that the speed a vehicle is travelling at is the primary determinant of how serious the consequences of a crash will be, irrespective of its actual cause.

Speed enforcement is absolutely necessary until the day motorists stop driving irresponsibly and making ‘mistakes’, so as to reduce the seriousness of the consequences when they crash as a result. Perhaps the only other alternative is to ban every driver from the road with the exception of 'damon hill'...