Landis: It was either cheat or get cheated

Floyd Landis (AFP/Getty Images)
Floyd Landis has repeated details of how he doped while riding with Lance Armstrong's US Postal Service team in 2002 and at Phonak in 2006 when he won the Tour de France in a long feature interview with Paul Kimmage in the Sunday Times.
The interview lasted a reported seven hours but focuses on Landis's own story rather than the detailed allegations he made after confessing in the spring of 2010.
Kimmage details how Landis decided to dope while attending a training camp in 2002. He was desperate for money after the folding of the Mercury team and desperately wanted to be part of Armstrong's Tour de France squad.
The Sunday Times reveals that Landis went to St Moritz for a training camp in May. There, Landis doped for the first time, applying testosterone patches to help his recovery, and a half litre of blood was extracted before being re-infused during the Tour de France. Armstrong went on to win that Tour, his fourth, and Landis earned $50,000 in prize money and picked up a $40,000 bonus.
Landis accepts it was his own decision to dope but claims he the widespread cheating in the sport at the time made him choose between either 'cheat or get cheated.' He chose the first, and as Kimmage writes, he became part of the 'Brotherhood of the Needle.'
"I've tried to explain this a hundred times," he is reported as saying in the Times. "But it always comes out sounding like I am either blaming someone or trying to justify what I did. I don't point fingers. Nobody forced me to do what I did."
"If I had any reason to believe that the people running the sport really wanted to fix it, I may have said, 'If I wait long enough, I'll have my chance to win without doping.' But there was no scenario in my mind where I was ever going to get the chance to race the Tour de France and win clean. There was no good scenario. It was either cheat or get cheated. And I'd rather not be the guy getting cheated."
Landis refused to admit he doped even after he was told he had tested positive after his 2006 Tour de France victory. He was in denial and tried to bluff his way through the accusations. He even stuck to his story when his best friend and father in law David Witt committed suicide. He finally cracked when his lawyer called him to tell him they had lost the case. He was facing a two-year ban for doping and would never be considered the winner of the 2006 Tour de France.
He smashed his Tour winner's trophy and symbolically smashed his façade of lies and denials.
"I had walked by that thing a hundred times, and every single time I wanted to smash it. and so I just grabbed it. I felt better for about five minutes and didn't ever regret it. It represented a turning point in my life where I had to lie, and I didn't want to lie, not like that. That wasn't me," he told Kimmage.
Landis wanted to change and says he had dreams about Witt, winning stage 17 of the Tour de France to Morzine with a solo attack and how the media surrounded his mother's house after it was revealed he had tested positive. Yet he kept lying, even in front of his father who travelled to his arbitration hearing.
He split up with his wife Amber and moved to their log cabin in the hills southern Californian Mountains. He thought that racing again would help but he also turned to drink.
"I had this idea that I would feel better once I started to race again, but I didn't," he told Kimmage. "Some days I was okay and I would race okay, and other days I just didn't like who I was. I felt like I was completely disconnected from the world, like I was looking at things from the outside, just watching them happen. I couldn't think forward, that was too much, or think backward, but I knew that nothing that happened in front of me could hurt me."
"I had a few drinks every day for quite some time, and it got to the point where I realised I had to stop. I went to some therapy and realised I was just trying to avoid thinking again, except that this time I was using alcohol rather than riding my bike. The process of talking to somebody helped. I realised, 'I am not going to be all right if I've got to keep living like this. I'm not going to be all right if I just keep avoiding it. I can't go back and make it different. I can't change the facts.'"
Landis is now 35 and is reportedly $80,000 in debt. He has been largely ostracized by the sport and has been attacked by those he has accused and others in the peloton. Despite his problems, Landis is striving to find personal happiness.
"My parents were right about a lot of things," he said. "At some level, whatever life you live, you have to accept things before you can be happy - whether that's having very little, like they prefer, or having everything. Until you are content with what you've got, you are always chasing something, or running from something, neither of which is good.
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"I'm stuck in the middle between chasing something and running for something and at the same time trying to be content."
Landis's admissions have sparked the FDA investigation into doping and fraud at the US Postal Service team. But he denies that any outcome of the investigation will make him happy. He is not looking for redemption but is hoping what he has done can help a future generation of riders who dream of winning the Tour de France just like Landis did.
"Well, one thing about life is that there is no happy ending, the ending is never good," he said. "But in terms of the investigation and other people getting hurt, that's not going to make me feel better. There needs to be something better for the next guy that comes along, so he doesn't have to face the decisions I had to face. But in terms of me being okay with me? That's up to me, that's not up to someone else."
A full transcript of the interview is available here.
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User Comments
There are 26 comments on this post
Showing 1 - 26 of 26 comments
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RantandRage
Posted Tue 1 Feb, 4:42 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Can't be bothered to read anything more about him.
Bored Bored Bored.
He does look a bit like Oscar out of Sesame Street though
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alpine_yorkie
Posted Tue 1 Feb, 7:49 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
This guy has yet to learn about self-discipline.
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Gilgamesh1971
Posted Tue 1 Feb, 8:00 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Has this guy not vanished yet?
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Ron Stuart
Posted Tue 1 Feb, 8:50 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Don't know what is worse, knowing this dickhead is still breathing or the press reporting on what the 'sh*t for brains' has got to say!
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Docsavage
Posted Tue 1 Feb, 11:55 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Landis and Kimmage - two entirely balanced individuals entirely without issues of course. what a perfect match.
loathsome pair.
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BikeSwan
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 3:24 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
I have to admit, he does seem to be genuinely tying to be happy with his life. Im not sure if Lance doped. I idolize him but we never thought Landis was doping so what about Lance. I would hate it if Lance turned out to have doped, I would burn the 6 posters I have of him. Lets hope for the best and see Lance Armstrong prevail.
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Alb
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 7:10 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
"Lets hope for the best and see Lance Armstrong prevail."
You're joking right?! The feds are about to bring Lance's world crashing down around him.
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Geoffroid
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 7:24 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
A Rough Ride is the best book I have read on sport, and Kimmage is a proper journalist. It is a pity we don't have more like him in our media in general.
I suggest anyone wishing to express their views on Landis should first read the full transcript of the Landis/Kimmage interview at nyvelocity.com. Of course I cannot vouch for its veracity, but it made some sense to me. It is, however, rather a long read. So perhaps it is easier just to slag Landis off - I can see how he might of upset some people, although some understanding of his story might tone down the criticism a bit.
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planeetx
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 9:12 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
He's a lying cheat and not worthy of my attention.
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NatoED
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 9:19 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
I believe that Landis comes out of this interview a lot better than some would give him credit for. He seems to be very humble in the fact that he is not trying to get money for nothing, he's not trying to "get his own back".
Ok the guy cheated but so did the guy in 2nd that year and 3rd ........hmmm cheat or be cheated... sounds not all that untrue. It's a shame that doping happens (and seems like it's just not as bad as it was) but at least cycling is trying to do something about it .
As far as lance goes it always seems a bit fishy around him and if the feds have something on him then it's just rumour or hear say . Personally I've never liked Armstrong and have followed any news around him .
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NatoED
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 9:22 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
planeetx So was Dave Miller who rides for Gamin , Inderan , Ulrich , most of the peliton in the 1970's .
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chas.readman
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 9:27 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
He doped when he was skint
He lied about it when caught
He is skint again
Doping agian won't help
Maybe some more lies will bring in some cash!!!
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psterdeacon
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 12:53 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Agree with some of the above- but read the article before judging- he chose to be in the running and cheat along with most of US Postal, of course it's not right but if everyone's cheating and you really want to win you have to cheat too- it's a difficult choice for some- suffer ostracism from your team for being straight or cheat and fit in and be competitive- the article suggests that if the UCI really wanted to clamp down they could but they chose (choose?) to look the other way in most cases. Comes down to how much you want to win i guess. Depressing reading.
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singlespeedexplosif
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 1:33 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Good on you Floyd.
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planeetx
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 1:46 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
@NatoED - "...so was Dave Miller who rides for Gamin , Inderan , Ulrich "
errr, and your point is?
That's llike saying we shouldn't think too bad about Adolt Hilter because there were plenty of other Natzi's guilty of murder and genocide...
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Hondated
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 2:14 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
The question us British should ask ourselves is apart from Millar who admitted to doping how many of our riders really rode clean over the years.Because if they did they achieved more than they were ever credited with.
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Chris217
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 2:51 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Ok i agree i am also very bored with hearing from this joker, if a psychological self assesment is required i suggest he talks to someone qualified to provide an opinion and stop boring everyone with continued waffle !!!
Floyd go and find yourself !!!
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Croxted Avenger
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 4:13 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
'That's llike saying we shouldn't think too bad about Adolt Hilter because there were plenty of other Natzi's guilty of murder and genocide...'
Er dictator who sanctioned industrialised ethnic murder vs Pro cyclist who doped, lied and now purports to tell the truth...perspective please!
I'm always surprised at the outrage directed towards Landis. Landis is one of many, many liars in cycling but the wrath directed towards him is far greater than towards say Valverde - who has never shown any remorse, made far more money from cheating than Landis and was allowed to compete and win a Vuelta on a technicality knowing full well he was guilty as sin.
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Paul RS
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 4:31 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Cheat or be cheated??
Either way you are a loser, even when the cheats ahead of you get kicked out, you still feel cheated..
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planeetx
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 4:39 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
@Croxted Avenger: "perspective please"
Oh come on - I suggest you look up the word "analogy" in a dictionary.
I'm giving another example of the same logic/reasoning being used, not saying the two are similar because of the magnitude of the acts. tsk...
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Croxted Avenger
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 5:02 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
Planeetx - sure, I will - as long as you promise you look up the terms 'straw man' and 'hyperbole'.
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chapps
Posted Wed 2 Feb, 11:41 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
I thought it was well worth a read.
I think the only subjects I would like Kimmage to have approached with Floyd was the hacking into the lab computers and later the blackmailing of Greg Lemond the latter being the low point in Floyds plight. He went well past desperation at that point.
I think after everything that has come out of Floyds mouth over 5 years this is the truth now.
I did purchase "Positively false" years back and although I never thought Floyd was innocent before or after reading the book it did raise some interesting points meantime.
Had Floyd not tested positive or managed to get back on a team post positive would he be singing like a bird now, probably not. Like Dave Millar before him you have to wonder whether he would turned from poacher to game keeper.
I think whether you like Kimmage, Landis, Millar etc they have an important role in the outcome of cycling. Otherwise we may never know about the issues.
Since Kimmages book "Rough ride" there have been many others that followed giving an insight into the realms of doping "Breaking the chain" Willy voet, LA Confidential, Bad Blood, Lance to Landis etc.
Now I think they all made an interesting read and all named names, some facts based on prosecutions some on circumstantial evidence.
I think Lance again whether you love or hate him has too had an important role. He has put Cycling into a different level in terms of attraction and following. Along the way has become bigger than the sport himself. Like Alex Ferguson (Man Utd manager) says no one player should be bigger than the club. Well Lance became much bigger. Lance to me became untouchable. Cycling could not afford for him to be taken down. I think post retirement cycling fans wanted to see things change and I think the reality was it didn’t.
Now whether you have read any of the books etc about Lance is by the by.
Look at everyone that was stood next to Lance on the podium. Ulrich, Basso, Vino, etc they have all been wrapped up in Dope accusations or been served Bans.
Look at the Postal, discovery boys that have been done or admitted doping after leaving the protective cloak of the team Heras, Hamiltion, Andreu, Floyd.
I would love to believe the Lance story and did in the early tour wins to a point but cannot ignore it any longer. I cant see how you can beat another athlete such as Ullrich etc who is charged up cleany. Not just once but for 7 years beating riders in the top 10 who have had positive tests.
In retrospect it would seem Lance’s comeback may be his undoing. If he and Bruneyl didn’t return Floyd wouldn’t have had the opportunity to ask but then be disappointed by being told "no you cant race again on the team"
The whistleblower case has formed into a Federal investigation.
From my understanding the Feds are involved because US Postal is a government organisation therefore US tax payers money could have been used to fund a Performance Enhancing Drug programme. Had Lance ridden on a regular private funded team he would not be under this intense spotlight now it seems?
I’m not sure that the information Floyd has on Lance or anyone else from ex team mates to his mechanic will stick as its all circumstantial.
If they do get a conviction it will blow a huge hole in Cycling as surely the investigation would look into other claims about the UCI and US cycling etc, we shall see.
Floyds initial reaction all the way to 2010 seems no different to any of the others that have had a positive test. Deny etc. Floyd went further than most by really hacking at the governing body. What was interesting was he justified doping as everyone was in on the circus, so no one was getting cheated. Look at Contador now its no different he is sat hosting press conferences next to Mr 60% how can he look credible.
Some will say let them dope or legalize doping. Ultimately we have to remember that these guys are held on a pedestal by most of us mortal cyclists. There are lots of young men and female riders that want to earn their living in cycling. Is this the path you would want them to follow?
Many have died from PED such as EPO and we don’t know the longterm affects of many of the other durgs that have been used in the last 2 decades.
In 1998 we had the Festina affair. It seems that could be chicken feed in comparison to how bad it could get now if Lance goes down.
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Elchico
Posted Thu 3 Feb, 1:19 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
I dont watch much cycling on tv, but my family do love the TDF every year its fascinating and compulsive.
.
I remember watching that year, Landis was up there in contention and suddenly ahead of the field on one of the last legs of the tour, before Paris, it was amazing, stunning and some how we saw the gap was unreal.
when the truth came out I couldnt explain it to my daughter, she asked why but Ive no words to tell her ...simply no matter what the "motivation" in fact Landis is simply a cheat.
sure he is human, sure he is flawed, maybe those around him are too, thats not the point...he chose his path, did what he did, took the prizes and accolades and was found to be a cheat, in one act he moves from legend to eternal disgrace.
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planeetx
Posted Thu 3 Feb, 8:51 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
In my eyes, Lance is clean until proven otherwise. The key word here is "proven".
You can't simply condem the man because you find the magnitude of his achievements too great to comprehend. i find it equally hard to believe that the most tested athlete the world has ever known could have been a systematic doper for 7 years.
I may have my beliefs shattered very soon, but until then, the guy is my all time sporting hero.
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ez_rider
Posted Sun 6 Feb, 7:44 pm GMT Flag as inappropriate
I read the full post on nyvelocity is it is an really good read. I really REALLY wanted to believe Lance's story, but I tihnk his world is about to come crashing down around him. Sounds like doping in cycling is so ubiquitous that it makes MLB look JV in comparison. Lance would be best served to follow the actions of an Andy Pettite than a Roger Clemons, but something tells me his ego might get in the way.
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switchback18
Posted Wed 9 Feb, 11:25 am GMT Flag as inappropriate
I think if you look at things without emotion it seems Landis has a few points. Trouble is once you get caught lying people tend to say you always lie so now is no different. But why have there been so many who get caught then protest their innocence so strongly that when it's proved they did it their punishment is probably worse than if they admitted it. I think the answer is 3 things. First most riders are/were doping. Anecdotal I know, but I've met riders who tried to become pros & dropped out of their own choice because in their words "you HAVE to dope to win" and they saw the damage it did to the health of friends so they finished with the sport.
Secondly it has always seemed that the system hasn't tried that hard to regulate fairly, seems to me that they pick a scapegoat every so often to focus the attention on. If this is the case, and it's only my opinion based on the belief that doping is widespread, then it's understandable that riders protest. If they know that most are doing it, and they feel they've been randomly selected as the sacrifice, they're likely to feel hard done by.
Thirdly certain ways of doping aren't even against the rules. That may sound wrong, but the rules give a maximum heamocrit level (or whatever they measure amount of HB in). The maximum levels are way above normal, and especially way above what they would be in someone who's beeen through a week or so of a race like the tour. So, the teams 'top up' using blood transfusions etc. As this doesn't have to involve drugs, the detection for this only involves making sure the level isn't above a certain amount. As I said though, this amount is very high, leading to the inevitable 'topping up'. One of the notorious team doctors apparently said that if they didn't do this, riders would be ill after a race like the tour due to unacceptibly low HB levels. So as long as they don't get the amounts wrong, they're kind of allowed/encouraged to use that method. Obviously this isn't widely talked about by riders or governing body as the public like black & white (perhaps rightly).
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about anything, some of this is stuff that ex-pros/semi-pros have explained to me.


