Shimano XT Dyna-Sys 10-speed: First ride review

39 comments
By Matt Pacocha, US editor | Friday, Apr 30, 2010 11.55am

The setting for BikeRadar’s first ride on Shimano’s new 10-speed (or should we say 30-speed?) Dyna-Sys XT groupset could not have been more favourable, which made it easy to come away with a good opinion of the new parts.

We'll bring you a full review once we've done some proper testing, but here are out first impressions based on an initial three-hour ride.

We’ll paint the picture for you: the place, the mountains surrounding Santa Cruz, California; the bike, Ibis’s new Mojo HD; the suspension, Fox’s 2011 36 RLC and RP23; tyres, WTB Mutanos.

The dirt benefited from night-time rain and the tyres perfectly matched the soil conditions. The Mojo HD weighed somewhere around 26lb and its 160mm of front and rear travel inspired confidence on the swoopy trails, which were just technical enough to inspire fast riding but not quite tough enough to really scare anyone.

BikeRadar's xt dyna-sys equipped test rig.:

BikeRadar's XT Dyna-Sys equipped test rig – not too shabby

The new Shimano XT and SLX Dyna-Sys parts don’t represent all new ‘groups’; instead, Shimano consider Dyna-Sys a drivetrain improvement. It's meant to fit in with their current brakes, hubs, wheels, crankarms and even left-hand shifter.

“It integrates right in,” said Devin Walton, Shimano’s PR manager. “The most obvious improvement with Dyna-Sys is the 10-speed rear end, but Dyna-Sys is no more about 10-speed than Dura-Ace Di2 is about being electronic.

"Meaning, [with Di2] our goal was to make the absolute best competitive road equipment that we could possibly make and it turns out, to get there, electronics were the path. With Dyna-Sys the goal was to create the most efficient mountain bike drivetrain that offers the most practical gearing to users for the majority of the riding that they do, and it turns out that the 10-speed rear end was on that path to achieve that.”

Besides offering 10-speeds the rear dyna-sys shifter offers improved lever feel.: besides offering 10-speeds the rear dyna-sys shifter offers improved lever feel.

Besides offering 10 speeds, the rear Dyna-Sys shifter offers improved lever feel

Time to climb

During the initial parking lot setup there were more than a few test riders bent over counting sprockets on the rear wheels of their bikes. A brief spin on the new gear offered two insights: the rear shifter is much tighter, especially with respect to the cable pull thumb paddle, and the rear derailleur is much more robust, which offers a snappy shifting feel and much less chain slap and drivetrain noise.

When posed with the question of whether to shuttle or ride up, especially given the equipment at hand, we had to go with the latter. If nothing else, it builds character. The ride plan would go something like this: climb for an hour, descend for an hour, then climb another hour back for a lunch provided by Western Spirits Cycling Tours.

We left the lot in the big ring and ended up riding in it much more than usual. Shimano took the size down to 42 teeth for the Dyna-Sys concept which, paired with the 36-tooth sprocket out back, gives a much more useful range. We offer a thumbs up for these two improvements as they make the big and middle rings much more usable and the small ring all but obsolete. This brings up our first nitpick: why not just make it a two-ring drivetrain like SRAM?

While the crank arms are the same, the xt dyna-sys chainrings are new.: while the crank arms are the same, the xt dyna-sys chainrings are new.

While the crank arms are the same, the XT Dyna-Sys chainrings are new

“A double is really only something that we’ll talk about once we get into XTR,” said Walton. “The reason for that is that our goal [with XT and SLX] is to increase drivetrain efficiency for the vast majority of riders, and the vast majority of riders aren't necessarily two chainring riders.

"There are a lot of enthusiasts who can do it, but as far as typical mountain bike riders who buy the vast majority of bikes that are sold ... Let me put it this way, when I started in customer service for Shimano in the early ’90s we didn’t make a Dura-Ace triple crank. Every fifth call I took was from some guy who wanted Dura-Ace but couldn’t ride it because he couldn’t pedal a double. He needed a triple to get up the hills.”

This is where we beg to differ with Shimano and happily align with SRAM for this particular product. For context, SRAM’s 28-36-tooth low gear (using their 28/42-tooth chainring combo for comparison) offers 20.2 gear inches, or 2.4mph of speed at 40rpm. That’s a pretty low gear that should get almost anyone on a 26in wheeled bike up a darn steep hill.

An average walking speed is around 3mph. Shimano’s 24-36-tooth low gear equates to 17.3 gear inches or 2.1mph at 40rpm – maybe too low to be all that usable. It's also only 0.3mph slower than SRAM's bottom gear equivalent. Double the rpm to 80 and it's 4.2mph with Shimano to 4.8mph with SRAM.

Mind you, a 22-34-tooth low gear offers 16.8 gear inches, so using that information for comparison, you should be able to estimate how important it is to have a triple versus a double. For further reference, check out the late Sheldon Brown’s Gear Calculator.

Notice the new profiles of the cassette's cogs, which provide shimano's best rear shift performance to date.: notice the new profiles of the cassette's cogs, which provide shimano's best rear shift performance to date.

The new sprocket profiles help provide Shimano's best rear shift performance to date

Keep in mind that while the tighter front chainring ratios associated with Dyna-Sys do equate to better front shifting quality, the three-chainring system is still more susceptible to chain suck and misalignment than a double, though we had no such troubles during our first ride on the new drivetrain. The three rings degrade chainline, when compared to a double, and influence the quality of crossover gear use, which Shimano encourage with Dyna-Sys.

This was shown by our short experience with Dyna-Sys: when completely crossed over – in the 42/36 combination – all it takes is roughly three-quarters of a back pedal to knock the chain down a sprocket, which is not always the case with a double system. Bottom line, we still think two chainrings are better than three [when paired with a 10-speed cassette] for almost all mountain bikers, racers or not.

During the whole of our first ride, which encompassed almost two hours of climbing, we never used the 24-tooth chainring and only once did we need a gear lower than the 32/36-tooth combo, and in that case we missed the shift. The miss was due to fault of our own planning rather than the performance of Dyna-Sys. However, a double’s 28-tooth small chainring would have allowed for easier rear panic shifting, versus the front shift we needed to make with Dyna-Sys.

The mountain specific 10-speed chain is asymmetric with inner plates to facilitate rear shifting and outer plates that aid in chainring pickup.: the mountain specific 10-speed chain is asymmetric with inner plates to facilitate rear shifting and outer plates that aid in chainring pickup.

The chain's inner plates facilitate rear shifting while the outer plates aid in chainring pickup

Game on: Downhill

Two things really stick out as benefits once the trail turns down. First off, we never missed the 44-tooth big ring. The smaller 42, when paired with the wider range of the 11-36-tooth cassette, allowed us to stay in the big ring through most of the trail undulations and punchy climbs encountered on our mostly downhill route.

The biggest improvement, however, seems to be the improved chain control of the system, which we credit to a stiffer derailleur pulley cage spring and the general use of gear combinations that offer more chain wrap. We found no issues with Dyna-Sys when descending other than the fact that a double has the potential to offer a better chainline.

Bottom line

Everything Shimano are preaching about the technical advantages of Dyna-Sys proved true during our first experience with their new drivetrain. There's less recovery shifting due to tighter front and wider rear gear ratios, better shifts due to internal shifter improvements and the completely new made-for-mountain bike, asymmetrical 10-speed chain, and better chain control thanks to more chain wrap, more of the time and a stiffer derailleur pulley cage spring.

The bottom line is that Shimano seem to have made some major improvements to the performance of their XT and SLX drivetrains, though time and more test riding will be the true indicator. The question we want to leave you with is: Do you think Shimano’s improvements only go halfway? We believe a 2x10 drivetrain would have represented the full monty.

Our ibis mojo hd was outfitted with the xt dyna-sys drivetrain.: our ibis mojo hd was outfitted with the xt dyna-sys drivetrain.

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Our Ibis Mojo HD was outfitted with the full XT Dyna-Sys drivetrain

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User Comments

There are 39 comments on this post

Showing 1 - 30 of 39 comments

  • Perhaps Shimano are waiting to bring the new XTR out with 2x10 then start offering the double chainset option on XT and SLX, etc.

    I'm guessing decisions are based on marketing benefits ahead of logical ones.

  • You should note that all your gearing calculations assume the use of 26" wheels, when using a 29er bike, each gear is going to yield a slightly higher speed for the same cadence, and so this may change what combinations are neeeded.

    Despite this, I agree that with 10 cogs on the back, two widely-spaced front rings is the best approach, rather than three closely-spaced rings.

  • As I'm busy dealing with noise issues on a new SRAM 9-speed setup, I'm not sure that the many-speeds-on-the-rear plan makes that much sense any more. 10-speed and double front still needs a skinny chain on the back, and some pretty fine alignments. Way more brittle than the old six-speed rears

  • I just bought a 3x9 SLX set up; it was cheap and will tide me over until Shimano wake up and give us 2x10.

  • By the sound of the review, you need to learn how to use a triple set up to get the best chainline. You shouldn't be using middle ring/largest cog on the back, it's user error rather than design of the groupset.

    From the calculations you give above I can see most of my customers benefiting and using a triuple set up rather than a double. Maybe it's the steep hill in Wales (not the tamed trail centre ones, the real ones), maybe it's because many people only get time to ride once or twice a month, but whatever the reason, the lower gears are required and used.

    You show a total bias towards doubles, this already means many road bikes come with unsuitable compact chainsets, rather than triples, now it's going to be mountainbikes. Give it 5 years and it'l all change again so you have something to talk about and shimano have a new product to sell.

    Finally noticed that the old SLX 9 speed shifters have already dissapeared from the UK importer, so so much for supporting the existing users. Shame on you Shimano.

  • 3x10 is a ridiculous amount of gears to have on a mountain bike...I'm with Matt on that Shimano have only gone halfway, it's like a half-hearted attempt at keeping up with Sram while they think of something better...

  • Agree with the 2x10 option - I currently run 36-22 front and 11-28 (9 sp) rear. It's ideal - never run out of top gear off road and there're very few hills I can't get up with a 22/28 low gear. 10 sp rear would keep the rear ratios nice and close together for slicker shifting and smoother riding :-)

    Easy swap though! Whip off the outer ring and middle rings, and fit a new size middle and a bashguard, job done!

  • Do the maths again, this time using a more realistic cadence such as 70 - 80 Rpm, or even 60, rather than 40...

  • steveaich - 9 speed SLX shifters still in stock at Madison, where did you look?

    It's worth noting that Dyna-Sys 10-speed is an addition to the current 9-speed components, not a replacement.

    With over a decade's worth of 9-speed Shimano riders out there we would be mad not to continue to offer 9-speed components.

    I do agree with your comments regarding the bias and the big/ big crossover btw...

  • I think Shimano are right to stay with a triple ring up front, although I'd probably prefer to keep my 44 tooth big ring as I do a fair amount on the road to and from my local trials.

    With 2x10 are we not just getting lots of very closely matched 'middle' gears and missing out on the lower and top end gears?

  • "By the sound of the review, you need to learn how to use a triple set up to get the best chainline."

    Believe me, Matt does know how to use a triple chainset. However, a lot of beginner riders probably don't, which is why he decided to test how Dyna-Sys would cope with a big-big chainline.

  • You cannot have too big a gear range on a mountain bike. Shimano's abandoning of 44/32/22 + 11-34 here completely mystifies me.

    Anyone who things the gears being offered here are too low needs to tow a BOB trailer fully laden with camping gear up a 1000m dirt road climb at the end of a long day. Yes, you can ride a bike at 2mph and it's a sight easier than pushing the damn thing.

    I'll be hoarding a few current chainsets to use with the new 11-36 cassettes for proper fat unfit old bloke slow climbing bliss.

  • Unfortunately, I think there's another sector who'll find the dyna-sys, as well as Sram's 2X10 system, lacking:

    people who use their bikes for fast XC or dual-use - off and on road. I commute 18 miles a day to work, partly on road, partly off. I found even the 44t ring to be too slow on a stretch of asphalt, and i have quite a long one in the middle of the way. I also rode dirt trails where the difference was noticable. True enough, in most situations you won't need such a large ring, but 44 or even 48 teeth offer people a choice which they don't have with 2X10 system. my current setup - Shimano SLX 48-36-26 fron, Sram PG991 11-34 rear - gives me 2.4 MPH@ 40RPM - the same as SRAM's 28-36 combination. but when you drive fast, there's a huge difference: a 42-11 combination would give you 23.6 miles@80 RPM, but a 48 would give you, all thing equal, 27 miles@80RPM. That is, you'll be going siginificantly faster. Shimano and SRAM basically say, with their newer systems, "everybody is trail riding or AM, so they don't need a fast gear". On behalf of all fast XC riders and communters, I beg to differ.

  • I'd have to agree with John here - 22/34 is not a ridiculously low gear. It's a low gear for sure, but for steep hills on bigger, heavier bikes, it's perfect. It also suits my style of spinning, as 40rpm is pretty slow, and I'll happily spin quickly on a 22/34 up something steep when other people are out of the saddle. I also personally still like triples for the nicer intermediate steps between chainrings, and find the 14 or 15 t jumps on doubles requiring a front and rear shift to even out. Tighter range at the front, similar small gear on the 10spd looks all good to me.

  • Ok, John, you got me with the Bob trailer bit. I'd likely want a triple in that situation too. As for those of you begging for the 22/32/44 chainring combo paired to the 11-36t cassette, SRAM plans to offer this exact range with its X7, X9 and X0 groups in 2011, in addition to its 2x cranksets.

  • Almost forgot... I do think: if you're going to carry around 30-speeds, you should be able to use them all. In fact, with Dyna-Sys, Shimano encourages cross chaining. Thinking that the low-end of the cassette is a faux-pas when in the big ring is a outdated concept with today's drivetrains — even Shimano says so.

  • oh yeah defo agree with all that and if you add a double dibble 42 snodtopper with 34x33+1= schrodingers cat then I think they are on winner otherwise put yer feet in the pedals ride fast dont hit tree and catch hin in front.

  • To me it just looks like a gimmick for people who want to tell their mates they have 30 gears on their bike. 2x10 makes sense to me.

  • They need to offer both a double and triple. Let the customers decide :-)

  • I think we'll see more triples (even from SRAM) than doubles in new bikes because it is easier and less risky for bike manufactures to spec a triple. How would you feel to be stuck with a 42/28 chairing when you really need/want is a 39/26?

  • What really annoys me about this AND the new 10x2 Sram is that the companies are trying to tell me that what they've made is 'ideal'. But for someone who rides a lot of SS bikes I'm often found wanting a BIGGER outer ring, not smaller!

    I rode a 2x10 setup using the FSA gearing once and I found it didn't quite offer me the middle gear I liked.

    Personally I've found on a 26in wheel bike the most useful setup for me is a 12-27 cassette and a 22-32-44 up front. On 29ers changin to an 11-32 cassette works well.

    All this crap is just another reason I prefer singlespeed!

  • I use my MTB for rough stuff touring towing a single wheel trailer.At the moment I run 22_44 triple and 12_36, 9 speed cassette. I would dearly love the new set up as I do climb hills at 4 to 4.5kph. If you want a double just remove the ring you don't want as I have done to my Grandson's bike, the large ring in his case. As to the need for a granny. My wife never gets out of hers when off road. So good on you Shimano for thinking of those riders who only do it for recreation and are not strong.

  • Can you use a regular 22/32/44 or 26/36/48 front crankset with the 10-speed system, or does it have to be the 24-42 Dynasys crankset?

  • How many blades do I need for a shave?

  • I think one of the things that really annoys me is people telling me I don't need a particular gear!

    I have 22 34 as my lowest gear and its useful. Who said 40 rpm was a good cadence, why not 80 (or more).

    I'd like to see a double option but I'd loose the high gears. I'd happily run say 24 34 or 24 38 at the front if I had a 36 cog out back

  • Back in the day I remember getting strange looks from the LBS when I asked for a 50T front ring. That was when all I wanted to do was see how fast I could go on a big downhill.

    Years later I ride a 42 front ring, and know that it is more than adequate for anything other than trying to break personal records on downhills.

    If (laugh) I was to try a cross country race now, I still know that I wouldnt have any dissadvantage worth worying about with top speeds. You can only spin out top gear for seconds rather than minutes in most places in the UK at least. That means at the bottom of the hill you might have lost a few metres or even less in seconds.

    I can easily ride my bike with a 42T, at speeds of up to the early to mid 30's (mph) on a smooth flat road at a fast but feasable cadence. The length of time I could keep that up for, would be soley dependent on the conditions & my fitnes and not lack of a higher gear.

    Sory, but these people who think that they could come sailing past me at this speed thanks too higher gearing (and keep it up for an extended period), rather than power & fitness, are only kidding themselves.

  • 1x9 on a 29er, just pedal dammit. ;-)

  • Brian NZ - i very much doubt that any "recreational" rider will have xt on their bikes, shimano make touring groupsets for that very purpose, xt and slx are high performance mtb groupsets for the large group of die hard enthusiasts who know what they want and what suits them, this group makes up the vast majority of off road cyclists, from what has been said so far, people like using trailers and 29ers, pretty niche markets. i think shimano have been lazy tbh sram appear to have got the principles right on 10 speed stuff, and 9 speed will be around for a fair while longer for any of the doubters or niche markets out there

  • Both my wife and grandson's MTBs bikes ar equiped with XT. Rec rider like nice gear as well. All our touring bikes, 2 solos and 2 touring tandems have XT MTB groupsets as we find the "touring" groupsets to high geared for our hilly terrain. I have just upgraded the 2 tandems to XT shadow as they change better with the long cable runs.

  • Im gonna cry the day they stop making 9 speed cassettes, how come they have to run a competition of who can make the most gears... why make it less durable just to get more gears, to me thats just stupid, but seems like im the only one considering the strength of the parts

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